Staredit Network > Forums > SC1 Map Showcase > Topic: Temple Siege v1.6
Temple Siege v1.6
Feb 12 2009, 6:20 am
By: UnholyUrine
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Jul 11 2009, 5:12 am killer_sss Post #701



problem is the engineer is weak to range without invincible mines. rines pop out and youve layed down your "mine field" and in seconds its obliterated by a pack of rines "disarming" all the hundreds of mines layed.



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Jul 11 2009, 8:27 pm nujuju299 Post #702



Quote from ShredderIV
Quote from nujuju299
I dont think the mines should be invincable, because that would be like a huge advantage of some sort to the special ops, i agree with the mine limate thing though, especially if the mines become invincable too.

uhhh... spec. ops? you might be in the wrong forum dude. This is for 1.5 and its the engineer... and mines were invince before 1.5d
No i ment this forum, only i forgot who had the mines, it was either firebat or marine -.- but either way my point goes for the mines! :P



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Jul 15 2009, 6:35 pm UnholyUrine Post #703



Yo guys.

I know many of you dislike some of the changes. You think it is unnecessary and that there're already problems. You also think that I've given up on this...

Well, no I have never given up on this.. but a strategic vacation to clear my thoughts was called for...
I must admit that this beta thing has many problems, which is why it is BETA. The changes that I made was necessary to experiment with the map and see if I can make it better...
So first thing that I must say right now is: If There are ANY changes that you feel that are just Downright Unnecessary, Retarded, or For the Worse, please say so now!

Plus, I have been listening to the suggestions and complaints (Mostly on the other thread)... and I know changes are due...
So, without further ado, I will be posting up some changes to do, since now that I have this posted up, I may actually gather the incentive to work on my map once more :D.

First of all tho, I think I shall skip "v1.5" and start fresh with v1.6, mostly due to the completely new terrain:

Next, I will be making more drastic changes ( :( ??)... mostly to characters that have been deemed "Too Linear" "Low Tiered" and "has STDs" ...
So here's my Proposal...

Temple Siege Change List


That is for now...
Again there's a lot of changes... but hopefully it's for the better D:

But the big change is the terrain.. which I'm excited for :D.. so we'll c!

Post has been edited 3 time(s), last time on Jul 15 2009, 8:07 pm by UnholyUrine.



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Jul 15 2009, 7:24 pm ShredderIV Post #704



woah. I pretty much like all the ideas you put forth. the lm will definitely have a better chance of surviving, especially if he keeps his ht at base, so he has a scapegoat kinda thing. One thing i dont understand is reducing the summoner's ling cap again. He almost needs those 9 lings to be able to do enough damage to his opponents, unless you're also increasing the goblin's ups from +2 to +3... Just actually finish it lol, and dont hold off for the long time we had as a lull. This version looks to be very promising as the first perfectly balanced ts.

and also, please change the dropship (assault l3) to the fbnat spell. one of the main problems with engineers l4 was that assault completely countered it in its entirety with only his l3, since he could take out a large amount of mines with a lot less energy. the fbat spell would help this not be a problem.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jul 16 2009, 3:06 am by ShredderIV.



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Jul 15 2009, 9:58 pm FlashBeer Post #705



Woo, more changes.

For your new Sin idea, you could could have l2 place the "Sentry" every time you use it. L1 would take you home, double cast will take you to the Sentry. Usually, Sin would want to warp back to where he last fought. Also, Sin could heal and come back during a battle, but it would cost 125 mana if he didn't already stun. Would be interesting to see used, especially with the new, larger map coming in.

Summoner ideas:
Abyssal Demons only fight in a area close to the Summoner. They will have a "leash" roughly 5x the size of Void. This way, the Summoner will have to leave the base to attack the enemy base with Demons. If Demons leave the area, they will be automatically forced to move back to the Summoner.

If Summoner casts L4 while 2 Abyssal Demons are near him-
Gateway to Hell/ Reign of Evil - The 2 Abyssal Demons are killed and 13 Goblins will appear at the Summoner (meaning that the zergling cap is temporarily increased) for 15-20 seconds, then the Goblins die. Before the the spell takes effect, all your Goblins on the map are counted in DC's and killed. For every Goblin you had, 2 more goblins will appear at your Summoner, as well as the spell lasting a third second longer. Additionally, if you cast l1 while the spell is running, you will still spawn 2 Goblins and gain 1/3 a second. This would cost a lot of mana, but would be highly effective in destroying a base with Dark Swarm. (Could have +25 Goblins)

Also you could just copy your Food for Thought, if you cast L4 3 times in a row.

One more EDIT: Unholy, I don't think that the LM l3 will work out quite as you plan. Your HT could make hallus of your LM and vice versa, that would screw up your hero locations and spells.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Jul 17 2009, 3:59 am by FlashBeer.



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Jul 17 2009, 6:15 am killer_sss Post #706



New terrain- *drooling* waiting for it :)

Engineer- spidermines increase in hp is fine but it doesn't quite solve the problem of ranged spawn raping them and never actually coming near them. the rest sounds decent although i'm not quite so sure how useful the L3 will be getting it so late.

Assassain- I like the sentry idea although i agree with flashbeer. It could be potentially a pain in the ass having the sin heal and then warp back out to go on a killing spree. It will be fun testing regardless.

Archer- sounds good interested at looking at new l4 and how it will work :}

Light mage- Changes sound good.

Assult- good i would like to see firebats stun is somewhat overused in this map.

Summoner- spells sound cool but i'm not sure how well the L3 will work = ? Definately not looking forward to cap being lowered yet again but well see.

Warrior- so this means 120 for l4 and 12 for L1? sounds decent hope it works swell little worried it may lead to same invincible problem but well see.

phantom- yes a point for finally casting level 1 woot besides meat shield vs spawn and L4 kills.

earth demon- k not trying to harp but can you please fix L3 burrow to the lurker. L2 sounds good L1 sounds problematic. Yes it will block but will cost twice the mana. Most people will be trying to kill the observer anyhow those that cannot shoot air you can almost always dodge if you go over cliffs or mountains or whatever. Idk i guess no suggestions at this time.



Dark mage- would somewhat like to see l1 changed to 3 or less broods spawning as this allows it to storm and snare way too much. I guess the biggest evidence i can offer for this before this change i always was raped when i was dark mage, no matter the version. After the change i have yet to lose when playing with her.



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Jul 17 2009, 5:31 pm UnholyUrine Post #707



Here's what I'm also thinking...

For summoner, L3 will be able to increase the summon cap to 9 or 10 during that time.
Also, I will be making the dark swarm spawn Infested Terrans.. However, I need to make it so that it is not so devastating...

there's one of three choices.

1. When another Dark Swarm is cast, the IT spawned by the first one will be removed... This would make it so that the player needs timing to get the most out of it.
2. Have the energy for Defiler set to 100E every x seconds.. this'd limit the amount of Dark Swarms the Defiler can cast.
3. Make the Defiler Immobile in that 10 seconds... This'd make the defiler quite vulnerable. Remember that casting L1 and the new L2 would summon units at where the last Dark Swarm was placed.

...
Another problem that arose is that with Light mage, his new L3, Light Essence, would probably be too strong... As you can just keep the High Templar at the base and just tele away... That isn't what I want...
So again, I'm left with a few choices..

1. The High Templar will only last for 30-40 seconds after casted.. This'd make this spell more aggressive, as you must make full use of that HT in that many seconds.
2. The High Templar cannot move too far from you or it will: a) be moved to you b) be ordered to you c) eradicated

..
Finally for DM, I'll make it 3 broods, with a cap of 6 broodlings. They were initially to help the Dark Mage exp, not for her to be a spell-monger... Also Ensnare should be upped to 50-60E.

..
And lastly, the Earth Demon.. I'm ditching the critter spawn idea as it'd be too messy. Instead, when L1 is casted twice, the trail at which the Earth Demon has burrowed through will.. err.. cave in and swallow heroes and kill foes... heroes will be stunned for 4-5 secs.. :D.. this'd make the spell much cleaner, and basically has the same effect as blocking...



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Jul 17 2009, 7:56 pm ShredderIV Post #708



Quote from UnholyUrine
Here's what I'm also thinking...

For summoner, L3 will be able to increase the summon cap to 9 or 10 during that time.
Also, I will be making the dark swarm spawn Infested Terrans.. However, I need to make it so that it is not so devastating...

there's one of three choices.

1. When another Dark Swarm is cast, the IT spawned by the first one will be removed... This would make it so that the player needs timing to get the most out of it.
2. Have the energy for Defiler set to 100E every x seconds.. this'd limit the amount of Dark Swarms the Defiler can cast.
3. Make the Defiler Immobile in that 10 seconds... This'd make the defiler quite vulnerable. Remember that casting L1 and the new L2 would summon units at where the last Dark Swarm was placed.

...
Another problem that arose is that with Light mage, his new L3, Light Essence, would probably be too strong... As you can just keep the High Templar at the base and just tele away... That isn't what I want...
So again, I'm left with a few choices..

1. The High Templar will only last for 30-40 seconds after casted.. This'd make this spell more aggressive, as you must make full use of that HT in that many seconds.
2. The High Templar cannot move too far from you or it will: a) be moved to you b) be ordered to you c) eradicated

..
Finally for DM, I'll make it 3 broods, with a cap of 6 broodlings. They were initially to help the Dark Mage exp, not for her to be a spell-monger... Also Ensnare should be upped to 50-60E.

..
And lastly, the Earth Demon.. I'm ditching the critter spawn idea as it'd be too messy. Instead, when L1 is casted twice, the trail at which the Earth Demon has burrowed through will.. err.. cave in and swallow heroes and kill foes... heroes will be stunned for 4-5 secs.. :D.. this'd make the spell much cleaner, and basically has the same effect as blocking...

yeah, the lm l3 wudnt be really rigged as a tele home spell... considering, l3=80 mana l1*2 is 50 mana, so 130 mana to use it... and the sin's teleport costs 25 mana... plus, it leaves you at a disadvantage, since you're not using it out on the field. Also, is the lm's l4 now gonna have obs, so he has to get L4 now to counter sin? that seems like it takes away the point of giving him the obs at all, since all sin needs is l2 and l3, and now lm needs l4... how about giving some incentive by putting an obs constantly over the "light essence" so he will have more of a reason to bring it out into the field.



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Jul 17 2009, 8:21 pm killer_sss Post #709



ok sounds great unholy i look forward to it btw i vote for the light mage to need to keep him a certain distance as teleporting far away would make this a hassle and if he exps near cannons he can still warp into the heal cause thats less than that amount of time. Not to mention a distance thing would be really cool.

Split the light mage and clone have them go oposite directions but both to base and should be able to escape but yet not get so far that he can't be caught any time the spell is used. I would suggest a fairly large location for this but thats my opinion and will need tests.

ooooo and swallow heros god that sounds fun lol.


shreddar you can counter the dt by casting l1. L1 occasionally spawns an observer. Its not that big of a problem. Not to mention with l3 teleport if he stuns your ass you pretty much escape to ur clone lol.



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Jul 17 2009, 8:25 pm FlashBeer Post #710



I am still unsure how you would fix hallucination glitches with LM's new l3. It would mess up LM's spell locations.

More Summoner spells!
Corrupt Aggression: If you have dark swarms on the field, all foes standing under them will be affected while the dark swarms are removed. For every 40 mana that the target has, 1 goblin will spawn on top of them (up to 9 goblins max per target). Binary count-off should be used to tally the target's mana, and mana is given back to the target right after.

If you don't have a dark swarm, the next dark swarm cast is where the spell will take affect. If the target doesn't have much mana, then 3 goblins will appear on the target. This would be a versus mana-whore spell.


Souls of the Damned: Turns all nearby friendly spawns into ITs— and all nearby enemy spawns into goblins!



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Jul 17 2009, 9:19 pm ShredderIV Post #711



Quote from killer_sss
ok sounds great unholy i look forward to it btw i vote for the light mage to need to keep him a certain distance as teleporting far away would make this a hassle and if he exps near cannons he can still warp into the heal cause thats less than that amount of time. Not to mention a distance thing would be really cool.

Split the light mage and clone have them go oposite directions but both to base and should be able to escape but yet not get so far that he can't be caught any time the spell is used. I would suggest a fairly large location for this but thats my opinion and will need tests.

ooooo and swallow heros god that sounds fun lol.


shreddar you can counter the dt by casting l1. L1 occasionally spawns an observer. Its not that big of a problem. Not to mention with l3 teleport if he stuns your ass you pretty much escape to ur clone lol.

wtf does half this post mean? i'm sorry, but read the rules... this post mostly makes no sense. and the obs GLITCH in the lms l1 only happens about 1/6 of the time, and by the time it happens, usually lm is dead. which is why unholy gave the lm's l3 obs in 1.5... swallow heroes god? wtf is that? Just please make your first two paragraphs clearer... at first it seems like you say you wnat to make it so the lm's clone can't get as far away as he wants, and then you make it sound like you want him to be able to run off as far as he wants...

Quote
I am still unsure how you would fix hallucination glitches with LM's new l3. It would mess up LM's spell locations.

the light essence l3 would be a regular ht, as opposed to tassadar, and it wudnt be a halls, it would be a regular unit.



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Jul 17 2009, 9:20 pm UnholyUrine Post #712



@Flashbeer's spell ideas..
They both sound too exp and hard to trigger :C

@ShredderIV:

This is the sort of thing that I really dislike... You know very well that Assassin is built that way, and that assassin vs. LM are completely different.. Focusing on the numbers, yes it's true that assassin requires much less mana... but if you think about the Hero overall, you KNOW that LM is much different.. and you should KNOW that the only time one can even get near to LM is during his L1 post-spell effect. Since the tele is set at L1 x 2 .. it is basically the LM casting l3.. leaving it at his base ... and go out grinding... if he runs into trouble.. cast massive L1's one after another (Or L2) until he is almost dead.. then simply cast L1 twice and pop...

I agree with Killer_SSS and i'm going to have a big enough location... where the High Templar cannot leave the LM... u can argue that doing this is almost the same, but if the LM wants to attack... people can rush and try to kill the HT and catch the LM off-guard. .. I think this'd be a good addition to the gameplay...

@FBeer .. what hallu glitch? ><"

@Killer_sss .. Yes .. i want his new L3 to be capable in assault AND escape... .. may have to lower reaver dmg just to compensate ><"!



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Jul 17 2009, 9:25 pm ShredderIV Post #713



i guess unholy, as long as the location is pretty large, otherwise it wudnt make much sense... also, you didnt answer about if the l4 was still gonna have obs with it, or if you could give the light essence obs...



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Jul 17 2009, 9:41 pm FlashBeer Post #714



Corrupt Aggression shouldn't be too hard to make, just a lot of trigs. I could further break down the description if you were interested.
Souls of the Damned would function much like Summoner's old l2, except that it only occurs on [men] spawns owned by p7-p8 at your location.


As for the LM glitch, if your Mage made hallucinations of his copy, the location could be centered onto a hallucination, rather the the actually copy. In reverse, your copy could make hallucinations of your Mage. If that happened, you could just make hallucinations of your Mage and have your hallucination (with full hp) cast your spells, while you sit back inside your base. The only way to fix this would be to remove hallucinations, or replace the l3.



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Jul 17 2009, 11:03 pm ShredderIV Post #715



no one uses lm halls ne ways XD



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Jul 17 2009, 11:35 pm UnholyUrine Post #716



Oh yeah, you're right flash..

But simple solution would be to make Hallucination available but not researchable... so normal HT cannot do hallu, but LM can.



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Jul 18 2009, 1:26 am FlashBeer Post #717



If you made hallucination researchable, then the Mage could still make hallus of the copies, then the 1/2 power spells could appear on the hallus, or the Mage could teleport to the copies. It isn't much of the problem, and I couldn't really see this being abused, but it could be an unpleasant glitch.

Anyway, I've been pondering upon this (new?) method of fast movement. It's easy to use, it sounded really complicated to get the exact specifications when I was trying to type it out. I thought a spell like this would work out nicely for a faster LM...

Light Transmission allows the LM to quickly dash in any four directions, multiple times. Good for a quick retreat or a fast strike (would be nice to see combo-able with less dmg reavers), a more skill-oriented fighter. He cannot use this to jump walls nor cross water.

Since this was just a quick display, there are some things about it that could be better. (i.e. messes up when running into air units, making the Mage immobile)
The first mode you start in, responds faster when you move the obs, but the directional accuracy is poor, due to the turning radius of the obs.
Seiging the tank activates the second mode, it's much more accurate and boosts you 2 spaces instead of one. The faster you click, the faster your obs accelerates and moves you. (This spell is better than the first mode)

Attachments:
Light Transmission.scx
Hits: 5 Size: 55.6kb



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Jul 18 2009, 2:13 am ShredderIV Post #718



woah flash tha was mad sweet. even just using that as the lm's l3 would be perfectly fine with me, giving him a way to escape. Or, as another idea unholy, how about you make it a double l3 or l1 cast, it might be more balanced as a l3 , so you have to have the ht out alrdy, but also could work as a l1 as a way to give him a better movement spell.



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Jul 18 2009, 5:18 am UnholyUrine Post #719



I just Jizzed in my pants.

I still need to justify putting that in though...
Have you tested this when there's a load of units

I just did and I was able to glitch it heheh :P



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Jul 18 2009, 6:18 am FlashBeer Post #720



Yeah, air units glitch the spell. The way I figured to work around it would be to move the air units in the grid area, away from the area, then bring it back to where it was. Since it's really fast (1 trig cycle) spell units should be still able to attack after they return.

It would work best as an l3 that's comboable with l1 and reavers. If it becomes and l3, reaver's dmg would need to be weakened (Reavers would now be less OP and spammed, while LM has another survival spell). It should also have a lengthy transmission period (at 80 mana, it should be a decent time).

Imagine, your LM just cast l1, and some foe is camping your hero, waiting for your cooldown— so he could kill you... but then you cast l3 before your cooldown and warp away!



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