First of all, I like what you're doing here, and think it can really be good. I haven't played MTG, but I have conceptualized and created a few failed card games. Don't make the same mistakes I did. Here I won't explain my games, (or at least try not to ramble) but I'll tell you what I think could work and what I think can't.

I created a card game with my friend based on StarCraft, called WOTR (War of the Races). It was relatively simple and very unbalanced: cards had only ground attack/air attack stats and a supply cost, exactly the same as StarCraft units. There were also v.2 cards, which had double the attack and supply values. For every card you had, you needed to have a certain amount of supply (each supply counts as only one, so a siege tank needed 4 depots on the field). Supply depot were destroyed with the card. This made the game very unbalanced, as players could draw dozens of supply or units without a single one of the other. No upgrades, and spells were very crude limited. Units were either dead or alive. Don't make the same mistakes I did here.

I created a similar game, WOTR v.2. It was too complicated because I tried to include spells, movement, abilities, armor, buildings, etc. It was so terrible I didn't even make a full deck. Don't try to overcomplicate things.

I created another card game, SCG4NP (You don't need to know what it stands for). This one was better than the first two. What I included here was a limit on attacking, guarding, and HP. It was not SC-based, but it was more balanced. This is where I introduced "levels" of cards. Each card had a level: 1, 2, or 3. Level one cards needed no support buildings to be played. Level Two cards needed one support; L3 needed two support. (Levels were determined by the strength of the card.) There were varied "slots" on the field (average four or five, there was no set slot number). Each unit was put in an induvidual slot, and a building could be put under it-- that unit guarded the building. SCG4NP was still a bit too complicated as there could be up to 5 "units" on one card (each with their own HP).

The final card game I named EPIC FAIL. This one wasn't SC-based, but I think it's the most balanced and successful, although it relives a bit too much on luck. At the beginning, players draft cards by "Packs." Each card has strength, armor, HP, and value (value is how much the player loses when the card is destroyed-- more powerful cards have higher value). Strength+1d20 has to try and beat armor in an attack (armor is usually between 10-18, HP 1-3) Winning an attack always results in loss of one HP. Attacking cards cannot lose HP in an attack unless otherwise stated. Each card ALWAYS has a special ability, from "Second Try" to "Nuclear Strike" (I included SOME SC units) I like the attacking mechanic in this game, even though luck is very involved. I also like drafting, as it forces players to cope when they don't get all the cards they want, and they must invent new strategies. This may not work for your SC card game, but this might: ALTERING UNIT STATS. Yes, you could give a marine 2 HP and 1 attack, and don't worry about armor, speed, or firing rate.

I'll elaborate more later (my time is limited on weekdays), and explain more how this relates to your game.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Mar 26 2009, 3:01 am by rayNimagi.

You just gave me an idea, maybe supply could have to do with your maximum hand size.

I was very inspired reading your longer edited post, and while I may not take anything you used from it, it definitely stimulated my thinking and got me to think about things in new ways.

Right now what you draw really doesn't matter. You can still build any build any building you want, which will let you build any unit you want. After only hearing stuff from peopel like yagmoth I was starting to think that my ideas might be too simple, but now I'm really thinking the game is already too complicated.

Now I want to make it so your HQ doesn't build all the workers you want, you have to play them from your hand. You draw a card at the beginning of your turn for each HQ you control. Some workers can still construct, but they don't mine.

too late.... can't type straight.... must.... save rest.... for tomorrow.

Lol, I don't intend for anything to become of my ideas, I just want to see YOUR card game get through.


These are just ideas, questions and suggestions, you can take one, take all, take none, it doesn't matter:

How does construction work? Earlier Yawgmoth said construction is add-ons and structure evolution, so how do the buildings get on the field in the first place?

Is there a limited number of slots on the field to put units or buildings in? If so, expanding bases could create some new slots.

Think of my levels of buildings. Consider keeping structure cards in a pile off to the side, out of play. Have workers build buildings, and when they do, place one building on the field. Each unit could be a different tier, and each tier would require a building. The problem with this is that it takes away from the "deck construction" goal you want.


You could make it so attacking units suffer a set amount of damage when they attack. Or, dropships, shuttles, and overlords could be used to move around the front lines and attack the back line/enemy buildings directly (defensive structures could protect against these kinds of attacks).

I also created a pen-and-paper game about SC where you receive a set amount of minerals and gas to buy SC units with. You could set "pick one race," "all races," "Terran only," etc. It was very simple: Atk, HP, no abilities but the Arbiter's cloak and detectors. Players take turn blasting each other into oblivion. In that game, firing rate and attack value was balanced because the attack value of the card was how much damage could be dealt in five seconds in StarCraft. You may want to consider using that mechanic. I can send you the spreadsheet I created that has every unit HP (includes shields) and 5-second attack strength.

Do you know how ridiculously thick your deck has to be to play this game?

Good point,


Ok...


Not true, have 3 parts of the 'field', the 2 bases, and the middle is for troops that are traveling. I never said it had to be into a grid or anything.



I guess I wasn't clear, almost everything in starcraft is in multiples of 5s. 8 hp marine, with 1 attack. See where I am going?



I know I probably wouldn't make it anywhere in the market, I was just pointing out that I do in fact like alot of your ideas. If I ever were to 'steal' your ideas, the game would most likely go amongst my friends at best.


Sorry about 'the real question' just used to asking that. So I guess you are doing this for your own fun and enjoyment then.


You don't know enough about me. I will tell you I am NOT obsessed with money, I tend to give out things for free without a second though, and normally never ask for anything back in return.

Alright, this is a basic explanation of the game you inspired me to. Enjoy.

Very nice, well thought out! I think counters to keep track of vespene and minerals is an EXCELLENT idea.

I like your movement system (I'm thinking units can get upgrades (such as zergling and hydra, or marine stim packs) to increase their movement, but the complex grid may turn off some players. I assume the terrain slots affect all of their horizontal line, am I correct?

Can units travel diagonally?

When you said "Main" does that mean you can expo? If not, why not put the main base in the middle, along with the vespene gas?

Two hundred cards in the deck may consume a lot of paper (and ink) to be printed out. When you have 400 cards to keep track of in a full game, that may turn some players away. How many cards are in a magic deck? I don't know about Magic, but in Yu-Gi-Oh they recommended 40-60 cards.

Also, you forgot to place a slot for a discard pile.

Which card speed is used as the defenders' card speed?

Can you evade defending cards by bypassing their tile? (As in, if you have a marine on the left-most tile, and I have a zergling on the right-most tile, can I run past your marine and attack your base (or at least your second line)?)

What is the range of creep and pylons?

Overall, I think this is a great concept, just needs refining (haha, get it? AHAHAHAHAH!!!! no.).

Perhaps we could all pool our ideas and create a singular card game? We could spread it to the NERDS OF THE WORLD!!!

I second this.

CAFG, if I were you, I'd use Syphon (aka Richard Nixons Head) 's idea, plus whatever combat system you want.

Also, idea for keeping track of damage: Rotate the card whenever it takes damage. Cards with more HP are rotated by smaller increments. (So a Marine might be rotated in 180 degree increments, while a Battlecruiser might be rotated in 45 degree increments.) And once a card has been rotated through a full 360 degrees, it is dead.

Also, if you're serious about this, you should set up a planning forum for the game.

Also also, will we do "expansions" based on things like Confederate Uprising? (That's a mod for SC, if you didn't know. It replaces the default Terran units with Confederate units.) Or ForTheSwarm's UED mod?

Also also also, Syphon, can you PM me the template you used for that Dark Templar?

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Mar 28 2009, 8:14 pm by TassadarZeratul.

I haven't played any mods, but perhaps you could use those as "expansion packs" of cards in addition to the default decks?


If you accidentally messed up your card angle it might cause confusion. Plus, you would be pretty much confined to 45, 90, 180, and 360 degree rotations because most people won't want to have to use a protractor to play a card game.

If you can "stack" units in your field tiles, perhaps splash damage deals damage to all units and buildings in that tile.

An idea for a card: maphack. Reveals your opponents' hand. (I hate hackers but it's just an idea...)



So luck will have a normal role in this game?

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Mar 28 2009, 8:38 pm by rayNimagi.

Well, you could accidentally mess up any other method of recording damage.

As for being limited to certain angles: 30-degree rotations would probably work, too. Or you could put "rotation guides" or w/e you want to call them on the game mat. (Still, using 30, 45, 90, and 180 only would be the best, so people wouldn't need the game mat to play. [Or if we decide not to use a game mat.])

That's true, but it's easier to tilt a card than to knock off a damage counter. I think it's a good idea, just not practical enough.


If we use a (mandatory) game mat everyone has to print one out (As in, you HAVE to have a mat to play, instead of it being option for when you already KNOW where things go), and that's gonna take a lot of paper. 200 cards in the first place, I think, is too much printing and may turn off many would-be players.

Not giving up on this, just have family from out of state to entertain.

Well, well, well.... Loak at that. Nice card Frame, Richard Nixon's Head. I'm looking at a problem there. Isn't the playing area extremely complex and huge? The 5-6-7 sections of the board will be filled of unit and building cards. I guess that those lines are in front of each other in the "real game". It's weird to have the "front line" next to the second line.

The deck limit is OK. MTG doesn't have a limit so, 200 cards is OK. Of course, I'm expecting that you misstyped and wanted to say that the "Macro" deck is limited to fewer cards. I'm sure that the probability of draw something like three "macromanagement cards" at the beggining of the game is very big.

As I declared several posts earlier, SC doesn't have a "luck" factor. Nothing forces or tells you in a SC game which unit/building to produce or which tech/upgrade to investigate. As a card game, that factor should be important (not in the vital grade that it has in other card games... and considered. I suggested that the "terrain", and "bonus" card (like "split card to mine twice in one turn"), that could add the Luck factor.

So I think the deck's division should be done in the following way: one deck for everything you may do in SC, and other deck for bonus/terrain/misc cards.

Also, the units stuff is the most complicated thing to evaluate. That point defines if this is like an SC game or if it's an absolutely independent card game. If you are looking for the independence, then you should limit everything (units/buildings/terrain/lo que sea) card to a maximun of 4 copies of each (maybe 5 considering the deck's size...). That would also give the units a bigger rol in the game, so Marines and Zerglings won't be cannon fodder for more powerful units, and the cardboard won't be infested of cards. There should, aside from those topics, be a limit of units that can be simultaneosly be in both of the front and second line, the terrain cards for each player, the building the can have and the amount of workers....

Of course all of this can be applied for both game card discussed here (as Richard Nixons Head doesn't have his own thread.....), due to their similarities.

That rotation's stuff appears to me as a weird mechanic..... So, will you use a protractor every time a unit or building is damaged? Curious... Also, that is changing slowly the game into a board game....

I think (you didn't reduce the damage/hp stuff....) you must to reduce the unit/building parameters to a 1/10th, to make the unse of counters a possibility. I'll never play a card game that makes use of angles.....(I know I don't represent the whole world.....so not mention it, but that's what I think....)

I'd prefer the use of counters/dices (even papers) to track hp/shield/energy......

Just suggesting....

You should set up it up like Pokemon cards. Those things were awesome.

I've never played Pokemon or MTG, so if I sound stupid, please forgive me

How many cards are in a normal MTG deck? How many cards are in a normal pokemon deck?

As for luck in SC, there is a limited factor: when the enemies' troops are out, the location of new expos, a stuck reaver, etc. Not anything that could overcome sheer skill of a player, but some things may help a player.

If you want, you COULD make an SC board game (though Blizzard sort of did that already...)

TCG itself bases on 'luck' as you have to shuffle your deck and 'luck' any card you come across.
SO yeah. Even if you had the ultimate deck, you could become terribly unlucky and never have the hands you want.

Will shields and hp be combined, or separate? For simplicities' sake, you might want to consider not having shields or regeneration...

That is why in deck building you put cards in your deck that has better startegys when used in junction with other cards. The more cards that can be used with other cards the less chance of getting unlucky draws. Basically when deck building, its building a deck that will be the most non negatively affected by luck.... deck. yea.

Saying luck takes up 50% of TCG's isn't too far off. eh.

Also, why are people saying that it is ok/not ok to have a 200 card deck because MTG/yu gi oh/etc. does it or doesn't? I mean its cool to um, use references from other tcg styles but tbh that almost doesn't matter if you can draw 30 cards at a time or 1 or 5. If the rules are the same then the pre requisites should be too but since the rules for this SC TCG won't... 200 sounds about right.

I don't think this should be a TRADING card game since you wont actually trade or collect. And for the most part new cards won't be updated (at least units, its not like a new Starcraft with new units will come out) UNLESS you plan on creating your own new units. Maybe it should just be a board game?

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Apr 4 2009, 5:53 pm by MadZombie.

But there can be new heroes/special units, units from mods (Confederate Uprising and ForTheSwarm's UED mod come to mind), new "micro" cards, etc.