--About me
Just got back to Starcraft after being gone for a few years, and found this site. Temple Siege v1.5 was referenced on the top news post, so I downloaded it and tried it out. I always wanted to make an RPG map, but like most projects and maps, never finished one. I really just don't care for writing story, and terrain... which is a big part of both of those. I did however finish a 'Hero' type map but never released it on BNet. Sooo... it came to me when playing Temple Siege, this is the kind of map I want to make! I like the team vs team aspect of it, the RPG elements, but without the need for narrow snaky quests and such. Most all of the emphasis is on the part I like.... making cool heros out of triggers... and here I am.

--About the map
Took me a couple hours, but I made a rough of the terrain. I hate terrain work... but finally got something I think may work. Initially I had planed for a 6x6 island grid with every island having several options. One option was which direction it should send units, another was what type of units it should spawn. This was to allow some control in attack/defense, and such. IE: You could send units from one spawn to another to create a more concentrated attack stream, or attempt to cut off the opponents attacks at a rally spawn point, or even try to take an island by attacking it from multiple sides. Anyway... I scrapped this idea. I decided this would complicate it too much, and that for a start anyway I should keep it simple.

I decided to go with a similar map from TS, but with more spawn bases. This I hope will combat a problem I noticed on TS, in-that a full game of 3v3, the number of players and number of spawn bases is so close that I don't see any real change from the beginning. Everyone races for the spawn points, and instantly one team has an advantage, 2 of the 3 outer spawn points... or easily all 3. With more, I hope to dwarf that effect some. With this and other differences, I hope to allow a team to make a come back if they apply some strategy.

There are other aspects that shall differ quite a bit, but I'll bring them up as I start working on them, or atleast when I get more done.

Here's a rough of the terrain. Comments are appreciated.

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Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Mar 11 2009, 12:58 am by Scienthsine.

Unless you have a lot of air units or ways to get up to those high ground areas, you have a very very small playing field.

You need more details... Is this just a copy of Temple Siege, but with different heroes and worse terrain? I'd rather play a game that is brand new..

Hmm... I'd say a different type of TS... not sure what that type of map would be called. Kinda like how there are many different RPGs, or defense maps. There are ways up to the high terrain, just added the ramps. Also, might not be able to tell it from the shot, but it's 256x256.

I would make a completely new type of game... except I want to make hero-y types... and I hate going through RPGs stuffs... namely I hate terrain. I'm a coder. I have other map ideas... tons... but this one I feel like I can get into with my limited time. I'm glad to listen to any ideas though.

Worst terrain? What's so bad about it? I was kinda happy with it...

I think you are thinking about AoS-style maps.
I didn't say the terrain was the "worst" i was just saying Temple Siege's was better
I hope this turns out successful.

My advice:

Form a clearer idea of the map you want BEFORE you start terraining and triggers. The more thought out your map is before production, the more accurately you will be able to make you ideas come to life.

NEVER set out to make you map like another map. What's the point? You are setting yourself up for failure because, unless you are some super gosu awesome mapper that can blow everyone and anyone out of the water who has done the original idea, people joining your game will say 'wtf, this is X map except gayer'. Originality is the best option. Don't rush your map- take some serious thought about what you can do to make it unique, and worth playing over the current popular map of that type.

Terrain: It plays an important role in map styles of maps. Don't rush terrain, Don't make ugly terrain, and most of all, make you terrain have function and purpose. Design it around your ideas. Place cliffs here because X reason. Place tree here because it will effect X....


Plan it out better, make it more unique, and give some more time for terrain.

I like how unrealistic the map terrain is.

Problem with TS you need to avoid: Slow spells. Korean maps always have flashy effects that end up with cool spells. TS... not so much.

No Offense man, and I'm not trying to be harsh here, Buuuuuuuuuuuut:

I suggest you dabble a bit more into the Rectangular and TileSet Index brushes too, as opposed to just Isometrical. It really does add a whole element to the gameplay of your map.
I realize that you hate terraining, but the more you do it, and the more you play around with certain brushes, and the more blends you create on your own, the funner and better it gets.(Both the experience of terraining and the actual terrain after you've made it).

Any map I've ever played that was worth playing was unique, original, and not done in a rush. Good things take time.
Thus, I've come to a point to suggest that you ask yourself a question: "Do you have (and are you willing to give up) the time, patience, and effort to create this map?" If so, by all means, "Fire Up 'Dem Steam Rollers!"

You really do need to get your priorities straight, too. The idea should be your most paramount concern, atm. It seems to me that your idea was created on a whim, and wasn't properly thought out. I always remind myself that there are 2 things that limit a map maker from making the most kick ass map : The idea that it started as, and the map maker's willingness to go that distance to create that map to the best of his or her ability, no matter how long it takes.
Returning back to the main focus with that in mind, it seems like you are limiting yourself quite alot, with the lack of time put into the terrain, and the lack of thought put into the idea. In some maps, terrain can take days, or even weeks for that matter, to complete. One of my favorite maps that I play over and over took a week to make the terrain. You spent 1/168th, or 0.00595, of that time. Does that seem like you're trying to make the best map possible?

If not, Just stop before you waste your time.

Thanks for the input. Really, the only part I enjoy about SC map making is the trigger aspect. Figuring out how to do something, given the limited environment... it's kinda like programming in brainfuck, or building a cpu completely out of 7400 series ics. (Other hobbies of mine...)

I know me... and given my past SC maps... the ones that actually progressed to something playable where the ones that I threw basic terrain in so I could get to scripting. The others where mostly RPGs that failed in the terraining phase.

So, I will heed advice given and reallocate my time back to my other hobbies. Thanks again for the input.

Meh, don't let the naysayers discourage you...extended terrain looks nice, but as often than not, it actually has a negative effect on the gameplay, by confusing AI pathing and making less clear to the player exactly which tiles are at which elevation.

If the map is fun, nothing else matters; any effort that improves the "overall quality" of the map, but doesn't directly contribute to how fun it is, is really just a waste of time that makes it less likely for the map to be completed. If terrain isn't going to be one of your selling points, then screw it; spend your time on aspects where you can actually make a positive improvement on gameplay. Sure, people on SEN might complain a bit, but then, they do that about all sorts of ultimately irrelevant things. Personally, I'd be interested to see how a more territory/strategy-oriented AoS map comes out.

256x256? really?