Quote from zhuinden
AoS -> DotX -> Temple Siege -> Athlit -> Evil's Respiration GG
Temple Siege is one of the stupidest maps I have ever seen. You have 12 (I think) classes with 4 skills that took nothing to create. Seriously, I can create a skill that does nothing but spawn a single DT for 3 seconds.
That is why most korean DotAs like Athlit are so far more superior. They actually look good, and HAVE A GAMEPLAY. You have to use lots of skills/spells, while Temple Siege and DotX? You have to wait years to get Mana, and even then, you don't have to use them, you just melee sh-t.
Temple Siege is one of the stupidest maps I have ever seen. You have 12 (I think) classes with 4 skills that took nothing to create. Seriously, I can create a skill that does nothing but spawn a single DT for 3 seconds.
That is why most korean DotAs like Athlit are so far more superior. They actually look good, and HAVE A GAMEPLAY. You have to use lots of skills/spells, while Temple Siege and DotX? You have to wait years to get Mana, and even then, you don't have to use them, you just melee sh-t.
I was googling "temple siege" and came upon this (yes I was very bored). Before mentioning that he has uploaded several Korean AoS types of maps using "Temple Siege" as its tag, and that he's probably a tad jealous, I just want to share this question that has sprouted from this comment. Why are some mappers and ums map players not seeing the fact that simpleness is a big factor on the gameplay itself?
Let's skip talking about bounds, cause I hate them, and people will hate me for talking about how I hate them (they are repetitive and takes away a great mapper's time and talent away from mapping by making impossible obstacles that would only be beaten by the obsessed, rather than making a new map that will be liked by pubbies and junkies.) (oops i just said it)... It is rare to see people come up with really good, simple, fun maps nowadays. What happened to the revolutionary Cat and Mouse, Blood pressure marathon, and Random Unit Wars/battle/fighters?? They are GODLY compared to many overworked maps. Yes, they may be a stroke of genius that not all mappers will have, but why spend time in making Crazy attacking spells, crazy repetitive triggering that only helps the player a bit (like how in heros of synergy, metalgear made triggers to tell the player everytime he tries to fire a spell that's currently in a cooldown the EXACT Second till the cooldown is over.. that's madness!) Seriously, drop the perfectionalism and go for the fun, because, in the end, it's just a game (and more embarrassingly, a game WITHIN a game.)
Now, since I have a habbit of contradicting myself, and throwing everyone into the grey zone, I absolutely adore terraining and the crazy spells in We Are Friends or Naruto: Mark of the Shinobi for example. But we all know they are as imbalanced as my Temple Siege. Same goes for whatever korean game Zhuinden's talking about, because I doubt it is more balanced than TS, and if it is, just wait till v1.5 >:C.
But the main point is, WAFfles and Naruto MOS are fun (to an extent) to just bring out the big spell combo crazy effects on n00bs and make them your bitch. This led me to think "Why, then, do people like games like TS?".. Emergent gameplay, as CAFG indirectly explained to me. My map has more lee-ways and strategy-holes than the law . Well Darn, I've never played those korean Dota/AoS games, but I'm sure there's a lot of emergent gameplay there too. Why don't ppl play those then? I've seen sm ppl play Type-Moon arena, I've tried it, and I was confused. That's the bombshell. Zhuinden, no matter how bad my game looks, Korean games are way too noob-unfriendly for anyone to pick up unless you treat the game as a religion. Similarly, I turned to DOTA on W3. It is SHOCKINGLY similar to my map (with day/night cycles and 4 spells each hero) (I seriously didn't know). But the one thing that I find in common with my map too, is that it is VERY EASY to pick up, but the depth of that game is so deep that you [Zhuinden] can't even begin to fathom. I'm sure the korean maps are great, with all the pretty lights n explosions, but Dota didn't need those (Go Meat Hook! or that.. weird Miranda laser ball thingy i dunno), and neither did TS (and >1000 posts can't be wrong <3).
So, I ended up simply venting my anger in this thread, but the discussion really holds on to Why are there still Maps being made that aren't easy to pick up, and are sooooo complex and crazy that I couldn't even imagine how much time the mapper spent on it. Like.. it's just for fun. O.o... Seriously. Yea, it's cool to make impressive maps, but what it winds down to is.. no one's gonna pay you for ur map's impressiveness, and no one's gonna play it either because of it's noob-unfriendliness. So, your map then goes completely to waste. This strikes me as very odd, since isn't map making's sole purpose to have others play it and have fun? I just don't understand. Maybe you guys can tell me more =O!
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