I do not know much about EUDs, but I am using just HP detection in this concept:

By giving each player a dt that does different dmg, p5-p8 a unit each for enemies, they each do different dmg as well. So you can detect which player and which unit attacked each, correct? So you could use triggers for vHP for each unit, this would be for different weapons/armor/spells, right?

Then instead of killing the units, simply move them away and create/kill that same unit. All to allow the same triggers to work and not redo the EUDs.

This would work, no? Is there any complications in this idea? It would be used in my RPG.

eh idk exactly what you mean but if its nething close to my idea, that i never brought up, you would haave 2 units and when a certain unit came into attack range you would calculate the same dmg. problem is when a units in range its not always attacking. Also some units attack faster so if your constantly using different dts to detect its not gona be comparable with crack lings.

depending on what your using you could use the scrabs to get the hp and calculate that for doing dmg from both attacks and spells but as i have been told you might as well be just using virtual hp then lol. So i guess thats where i pretty much gave up on healing for my rpg. Its either heal units to their current max hp or give them a medic to heal them if possible.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jun 23 2009, 6:37 pm by killer_sss.

Alright, now that I am not using a phone to type this, let me go more in detail:

By giving each player a unit that does different a different number of damage, when you attack a unit, the EUDs would know how much was dealt. I could use this to detect what player attacked that unit. These enemy units would each do different amounts of damage as well. So you can detect which player and which unit attacked each, correct?

After this, I would use detecting what hero attacked what enemy and vice versa, allowing me to trigger in my own damage, health and regeneration as vHP. This would come into play when players get better equipment, use more effective spells, even leading to enemies leveling with you.

Essentially, say p1's hero unit was attacked by p5's enemy unit. He would take 1 damage, that's how much his units do and using EUDs, that has a specific number, right?

Now, pigy_g asked me: "What if he was attacked by two enemy units at the same time?" Okay, say p5 and p6, he just took 11 damage, because p5 does 1 and p6 does 10. Just for reference, this would mean that p7=100 and p8=1000. Detecting that he was attacked by both p5 and p6, now having 11 damage received, I would run the damage triggers on that player for both of those enemy players.

The issue with killing units that have EUDs set with, using this vHP system, I would instead move them away and re-use them.

So in short, I would be using EUDs to only detect different amounts of damage, to detect exactly what unit owned by what player attacked what unit owned by another player, to allow me to trigger (vHP) in the stats. This all would theoretically work, right?

Is there any complications in this idea?

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jun 23 2009, 9:01 pm by LoveLess.

I didn't think about this a lot, but I don't see any problems with it.

This idea is incredible, but wouldn't it de-sync/drop players?

If it did work, you could have the DT's damages be 1, 2, 4, respectively. A fourth unit would need 8 damage. Thats the minimum values for every combination of players possible.

Ignoring the de-sync/drop fears I have, I think I see a problem. You might find that two players attacking one unit at slightly different times results in the second player "missing" as the unit is moved and moved back just 1 hypercycle (presumably) after the first player's damage was dealt. The second player's DT would "swing his blade" and play the sound but the damage would not be dealt. I'm not sure how often it would happen but it could be annoying.

Detecting health would not cause a desych.

This sounds interesting, but ultimately excessively clunky.

Remember, you need to have a trigger for each value of hp you want to detect. Also this system would rely way too much on virtual hp.

It would be unique, but I can't see any uses that would make the chunkiness worth it. Besides it being clunky from a mapper's perspective, the player might also be able to notice the unit getting moved etc.

Multiple players owning the same unit would present a problem, perhaps? If P1 and P2 both own a dt, the base damage is going to be the same for both. Of course, you could change their upgrades. P1 might be set at 1 upgrades for toss weapons, P2 = 2, P3 = 3, ect, that would circumvent it.

Also, what scwizard said.

To prevent some of the chunkiness, you might try detecting the change in health every trigger cycle instead? Use binary countoffs or something to find the change in health from the previous trigger cycle or something, so you won't have to kill/create another unit there, perhaps.

For the 100th time, you can't use binary countoffs with EUDs...

I don't see how the triggers would be clunky... Just expansive as I add more and more customization to the players, which doesn't bug me at all.

I would be detecting only damage, then resetting the hp to max so I don't have 1000s of different healths to keep track of. The entire damage and health would be triggered, true, you won't be able to quickly tell how much health an enemy has, but in how many actual RPGs are you able to do that in anyway?

And yes, the upgrades would be used to differentiate the damage between players. I would use scourge deaths for all of my unit's triggered deaths most likely, to prevent misplaced deaths. Doesn't really bother me at all that it's not completely correct.

So using move, modify health, and triggers of such, over and over, wouldn't affect the EUDs of the units? That's my only real concern beyond concept.

Glad this seems newly thought of, it would allow for an infinite amount of weapons, armors, accessories, regen, spells and unique battles. I am glad this works out... Muahahaha. Funniest part is, only about 18 units will even be EUD'd if I can re-use the same enemies. The rest will be triggered, which is where my strength in mapping lies.

That's what's clunky about it. I'm not a fan of vHP to begin with, and using it that extensively would cause major pain.

I know, but depending on how many units could attack the player at once, you'd need a certain amount of triggers.

For instance, what if two zerglings are attacking a player at once. A zerglings deals one damage. How would you tell the difference between that and a unit that deals two damage? You wouldn't.

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This, I don't mind at all. It's mostly going to use the same Binary Count-offs for each and every unit. As simple as adding X deaths to each stat for each level/item. When you un-equip, subtract instead. Simple.

Upgrades my friend, upgrades. Each player has a different amount of upgrades, each player only has one unit at any given time.

Oh ok.

Still, the number of trigger's you'd need for each unit is:
2^(number of units * number of enemy players) * number of human players

Which is simply too many.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Jun 25 2009, 3:35 am by scwizard.

I can most likely trigger massively differentiated triggers faster than most mappers. I'm not trying to brag or anything, but I memorized the Syntax when I made Pirate Dyne and since then, I have become quite proficient at typing it.

I don't think you understand how fast powers of two go up.

If you have 3 players and 7 different units for each player, then you'd need two million triggers...

2 heroes and 4 to 6 enemies. Not really.

One trigger for each vice versa, then one additional for each combination of different players attacking at the same time. Simple.

Oh, if you have one enemy player, and two heroes, it's manageable.

You'd only need 256 + 64 sets.

I don't like systems that grow exponentially like that though.

Making a map for just the concept before I really go in-depth with this, I shall show you what I mean.