Actually, I stated in my post that depots should make a player owned siege tank (the same one that mech uses, as that amount of dmg seems fair for one turret). This in turn, would free the non-hero tank for use with the CC.

In that case, what do you call the Tank since it has two entirely different roles? Not to mention it could easily screw up some triggers.

You wouldn't need as name that fits for Mech's l1 (Mutant uses Earth Demons for l3). However, the name heavy cannon, mounted turret, or something similar would work for both. The sieged tanks are owned by two different players, they shouldn't mess up (same way that bat, rine, phantom, and volt all use scourages in their spells with different effects)

Really, really stupid idea - what if the Mech had an air form, a Wraith? This would give it mobility on-par with the Bike mode, and give the Mech further incentive to up Air attack. Maybe move the Tank to Spell 2 and make Spell 3 Wraith form? Could easily be op though, so maybe not...

Would be insanely overpowered. Imagine if one team picked Mutant, Warrior, and Summoner, and someone on the other team picked Mech. Rush up to wraith form and gg.

EDIT: And of course, that's far from the only team that couldn't hit the air form.

Yes, it would be an unbalanced form because some heroes could not attack it at all. Wraith could fly away over cliffs and water or bomb players with l4. I think this idea was thought of before, as the map editor's wraith hero was called "Mech (Stealth Mode)"

You could have a ground unit moved underneath, which when killed kills the wraith. But it's messy.

I recall that too. Wasn't there also a Reaver form called "Berserk Mode" or something like that in one version or another?

It was just a concept spell for LM final.

I'm pretty sure Mech had a Reaver form at some point or other; I think as its L4.

Reaver for mech was l3 in a version actually. It was extremely powerful since it was an overpowered HP tank.

Temple Siege v1
It never saw play, but presumed under powered.
incorrect. It replaced the wraith lv4 in v1.2 . This was confirmed underpowered.

To ClansAreForGays

Ohh ok, really? I played a version with a guy that got reaver so quick. I ignorantly concluded that it was l3, sorry.

damn, you people know your stuff.

Okay, there's a ton of posts that I had to read through. I'm sorry if I didn't respond to you specifically


Warrior L4 and Weapons up would wipe out the cannons fast.
However, about the warpgate thing, Faz- suggested to give exp whenever units are SUPPOSED to be spawned. I was thinking that That would be too overpowered. However, it may be possible to make it so that if you/your team kills the warpgate, you get like 250-500 exp boost (probably around 250). This'd make it not 100% detrimental to kill the warpgates, as you get like an exp boost, but you still need to worry about the consequences.
what'd you think?

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I don't know about the vortex being able to suck units to another area. It really doesn't do much other than damage heroes. I COULD trigger it so that ONLY heroes get sucked to another area to get damaged. However, it'd take away the fact that you can use the Vortex for teamplay (as it basically acts as a stun).

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I'm still trying to figure out the new heroes right now =_=' ... the New hero'd have to wait...
However, the Shadow Rider and the Priest/Paladin/Protector are nice ideas.. but some of the spells aren't very practical (especially the protector ones).

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To Ladyalanah
thnx for liking my map and posting here <3
I understand the abilities and OP'ness of the Mech. It is, as sm1 said, high tier'd. (tiers are for queers ) The only thing that I could argue against is that its bike mode has very low HP, and for a "strength" char, that IS somewhat bad news. Not to mention that changing from form to form does take mana. But I know as a fact that Mech is somewhat OP, which is why I introduced the wraiths as a spell, so that it further muddles the upgrades. I haven't been able to fully test the Mech, but I am weary of how its L3 form rarely gets used.
Your suggestion of removing L2 would result in a riot and people tissue-papering my house. Even switching L2 with L3 might cause that (and it's not the best idea, as mech bike mode should have the least HP)...

I guess I can still decrease the Gol's damage a biiit... but we'll c.

and Oh yes, wraith was initially planned to be mech's L4, but I scrapped that and put in Reaver as Beserker Mode :\.. that Didn't bode well. So Moose changed it to the rape gols + tanks + vultures... and then I adopted that idea and changed it to wraith rape to encourage 2 upgrade routes.

To UnholyUrine

I like the Warpgate idea. It would give the killing team more momentum*.

I can't speak for others, but the reason I don't use its L3 form is simple - it moves and fires slower than the Goliath, it's larger and thus harder to maneuver, and thanks to Siege Mode, it's easy to ambush once someone know it's there. And it doesn't help that all spawn units and most of the Heroes are small units and take half-damage from Explosive attacks. The L3 spell is great, but not the L3 form, it's just all-around inferior in terms of firepower and versatility. All I've ever used it for is taking out cannons with Siege Mode, but that's something the Mech's Goliath mode can do with its L1 spell just as easily.

Maybe lower the Goliath's HP a tiny, tiny bit (4200 to 4000?), and boost the Tank's HP and base armor? Then you could have Form 1 for all-around offense, Form 2 for speed and Form 3 for endurance, or something like that. As is, all I can recall seeing other people use it for is to meatshield attack spells - they'll shit forms around to endure damage, then change back to Bike Mode if they live and run away to heal.

I agree, goliath mode is far superior to the tank and since almost all mechs will use bike mode + l4 for ambush kills, the same mech can easily just use l1 spam to take out to besiege a position, or just run in with l4 to level everything. So the tank mode's uses are limited.

the only problem i have with killing the gates resulting in massive exp is this could be used to kill gates early on and fly past the other team. Would this apply to whoever killed the gate or the team?

this could be bad and it could be good. It may add to a whole new strategy. It also might help focus people protecting their gates too. I think it would be interesting to see.

To Killer_sss

The Gates have 9000 hp + a lot of defense as I believe. Cannons are in the way too, so this leads to more obstacles. Also, you there's heroes against that can defend it. I doubt that any early rushes would be successful without excessive conditions being met. Ex. Let's say top is rushing gates, and they have mutant+warrior/engineer+ summoner vsing all range heroes bottom team.

It would be best if the exp would apply to the team....let's say each gate is One Hundred Twenty Five exp. Kill all three of them and your team gains 125+125+125 or 375 exp.

It would make the game both more aggressive, teams will be more eager to make plans of attack, and defensive, teams will assign a defender (someone having the job to stop grinding and defend when necessary). The problem is the appropriate amount of exp. Maybe it's easier to price the Warpgates in Civs. than Exp. Each Warpate is worth 2-3 Civs maybe?

It's logical to say that the longer the game stands with gates intact, the less valuable the gates will become. I feel that the problem of TS is that as a TS match goes on longer, the value of buildings and bases "deppreciates". The Temple is Infinite in value ofc, but any other building becomes more and more worthless. It would be funner imo to keep the "Capture the hill" concept living longer ingame. The only way I see that happening though is if each "hill" Warpgate acts like a mini-sim giving players 10+mins but that would lead to more problems.