Perhaps the max lings could be limited by the type of game; ie: 6 max lings for 1v1, 8 for 2v2, 10 for 3v3. That would prevent the summoner from being so dominant in smaller games.

Volt really isn't kept in check by summoner. Splash damage on lings destroys them, and I've yet to see someone make good use of the Infested Terrans. With 2 per ling, that might be workable.

Reavers are still too powerful, they just tear through everything because of the armor. The only thing that stops them efficiently are the spells, as we addressed in the other topic. You could always start the Heroes with a default of 3 reaver damage upgrades and don't give the computer any, if the LM's L2 is a factor.

Maybe a scarab limit for the reavers? So if you want use out of em you have to escort or they turn into feed.

I think you should use pigys idea for assimilators. And archers defenses are already weak enough. I had a good idea... But I forgot it

reavers are already weak enough that they aren't worth getting unless you're a lone medic/DM and you have no other means to destroy the temple. Srsly people kill the overly weak building. Invinc unit spells make them give up their attack toward your temple all together. What do you need, Lockdown?! Also, as soon as you do start killing the reavers can you say huge exp gap? I just don't think the idea of a battle tank even belongs in this game anymore.

Am I the only one who is starting to see that the 8.5k 75 armor temple made the most sense? I think a 9999 temple with 60 armor would be the best.

More importantly than any of that, ghost still respawns in dropship with invic.

Wtf, I don't understand why all the things I fixed are getting undone unless I started editing a copy in a different directory with the same filename.

Digression:

Runescape. A vast MMORPG made purely from javascript. It has established itself as a great game with Solid Skill gaining abilities, Quests, and a Very Well Done Market/Trading System. Every skill is linked to money gaining, which will lead to more skill training, which will lead to quest completing. New things are continually being implemented into this game, like new skills, spells, etc... Not all of them were done well, like the Farming Skill was boring as hell. But still, they kept on improving the farming skill by giving players better rewards for higher farming levels such as ezily growing rare herbs that are otherwise hard to find (and sell for TONS of money). The Market system is where the game shines, as any player will know, World 1 and 2 have been turned into Market Worlds where players all gather at a city called Varrock to trade for big items and big profits.

But they just FUCKED everything up because they thought that people were scamming others with unfair trade. They took probably an entire month scripting and data crunching a new system called "the Grand Exchange" where one cannot buy OR sell an item more or less than a few percent of its "market price" (which is the price set by the runescape team). This completely ruined the ENTIRE game, since the gaming community has already established "Jobs" and "Notes trading" to lower the time spent in gaining skill exp and Money. By setting up this exchange system, they ruined all the profit-minded people, and limited all the players to quest doers and WoW type teenagers/children who spends 14 hours a day clicking a certain enemy to gain combat skills. Wtf?.. Also, they cracked down on people with double accounts, and people who use auto-clickers. Although it IS "unfair" to use auto-clickers, when a game drives ppl to use auto-clickers, that should tell the dev team to think why their game is so monotonous. Runescape WAS a good game, and I am pretty high leveld, but right now, it is a horrible game.

From what I've experienced there, I can tell that when a new mechanic is implemented, and it is different, it should never taken away. By taking away the market, they ruined a good game. Reavers are a great mechanic to the game and is the only thing that people'd build for spawns. If it is imbalanced, I will change it to rebalance it, but I will definately not remove something that has so much potential.
Of course I'm still susceptible to comments.. If the majority thinks the reavers should be removed, then I'll remove it. I won't be stupid enough to not listen.

I dunno about the temple HP. Can you reason to me why it's better to have 9999 with 60 armor? All low dmg heroes will not do any dmg to temple now. With 50000 hp and 20 armor, any hero can at least do something to the temple. The game has already been too focused on player killing than temple killing, and I wished for it to both be used during games (probably around 70-30% 70%player killing win, 30% temple killing win? .. right now it feels like 85 to 15 :S)

Rename the map Player Siege?

...Wow fail. Seriously, everything you just said was idiocy. Nothing beats the current reavers. Ever. Me and my friend have raced to 200, built two cores, and did nothing but laugh the rest of the game. They're basically a 9999damagex4ghost in a Golems map (RiG'D).


Ew, don't remove reavers, just balance them. Personally, I think temple HP's should be increased to 75k/30armor. The real games, (y'know where people don't die cause they don't suck), usually end up being temple killing. I find my team usually temple killing for a win about 40% of the time. If you lower the hp too much, you get boring kids that do nothing but charge the temple as Super Volt/Lolhpdmg Warrior and gfg it two seconds into the game. Yet another reason to give Medic an offensive spell.

Also, the main problem with other spawns is too much exp gain. I think i twas 4Exp per firebat kill, who the hell's gonna feed the other team for 280hp/40damage firebats. They're dismantled by a mere 20armor! A lot of balance can be added to spawns by changing HP/Shield/Armor/Damage/Exp (Exp probably being the highest priority.) ...On the other hand, reavers should give about 40exp (for their current strength), when they should give about 12exp'z worth. Now, firebats that give 1exp per 6-8 kills, I'd consider as a strategy towards spawn-tactics. They'd help supress the other team from player killing, and yet wouldn't feed them crazy much. Just take this from the above paragraph: Spawns need to justify feeding the other team.

Oh ya, and Assault needs some type of offensive spell. /maybe


...Rawr.

you dont consider a nuke offensive?

o.O I've never seen it used, nor do I know how to use it. Is it it's L4? If so, it needs to be in the mission objectives. Shorten the others' descriptions.

Annnddd, I wouldn't really consider it offensive, since I assume it's easily countered. In any case, I need to check it out.

SFSKabam, if you can find a way to modify the kill score that a unit gives without mods, you would be a legend among mappers.

EDIT:
I see now, you can't check if a unit is killed. That is so fucking fail. =/ Blizzard fails@Updating the map system. =/
NEVERMIND. =/

My ignorance at mapping. /endfail

Post has been edited 3 time(s), last time on Dec 22 2008, 6:55 am by SFSKabam.

Unless we wanted to do something insane like shared team XP.
Then we can do it. That would also eliminate TK.

Another alternative would be to have the spawning buildings gives XP. (and rebalance to weaker spawns, of course) The outposts are already doing it, so it's really just another step there.

Well...You could always re-do the entire level-up/spawn system.

Such that, Instead of really low killscore beginning spawns, you use the bigger scoring units first. Say, like Zealot (assuming zealots are pretty big kill-score-wise) as first spawn. The only real hard part would be keeping the game-play intact, which would require modifying the exp-gains so that zealots don't give you, say, 2exp per kill, but instead whatever the broods did.
And that way you can use buy-able spawns (maybe like Brood/Lings), and they wont give lolggexpz.

...Erm, dunno if that makes sense, I'm tired and will clarify in the morning...Well whenever I wake-up.

Also, anyone know if/where one would find the kill-scores of units. I thought Starforge had it, but I've not used it in so long...Be fun to know these things.

PyDAT has the kill scores. Maybe you could modify kill scores with EUDs?

EUD actions were patched...

the only chance would be placing extended units on the map, but we have no idea what effect most of that units have.

but you can use a perfect kills to cash system for hero units and special units (as long as there are not too many units around the temple shoting on 1 person using all sprites).
then you can stop giving rewards for teammates and their spell units and give exact rewards on which units you killed (not base's spawns units). But it's not an instant effect. You would get your reward maybe 1-3 seconds later (depends on your killer unit).

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Dec 22 2008, 2:05 pm by Ahli.

I have a few ideas about random stuff:

Maybe you could add Infested Terran spawns, make them pretty weak but spawn in large numbers, and stagger their spawning (so that rather than a bunch spawning at once, one spawns, wait a few seconds, spawn another one, wait a few seconds, spawn, wait, spawn, etc.). I think you could get them to be powerful vs. Reavers but mediocre vs. most other things.

A few things I have died because I forgot to rehotkey my hero when I respawned. A possible fix for this would be to change the Gateway to a Starport, use the Wraith/Dropship/Sci. Vessel/Battlecruiser for spells, and make it so that when you build a Valkyie it center views you on your hero. (While your at it, could you make it so that everyone center views on their heroes 1 second after anti-maphack is deployed.)

Minor thing: Rename the Vespane Geysers please?

I think adding a few Critters could make the map a bit more interesting.

Could you make it so that there is a tutorial that automatically plays, instead of the tutorial with the civ? eg. After everyone selects a hero, display a ping at the spell area and say "Cast spells by building units at the Gateway. eg. Build a Zealot to cast your first spell." The first time someone levels up, put a ping on the area with the civs and say "Whenever you level up, you get a Terran Civilian up here. Move a civilian next to one of the buildings there to select what benefit you would like." And so on.

Another minor thing: "Casted" (eg. Casted Escape) should just be "Cast".

And just wondering, do you plan on ever adding another hero? Just out of curiosity. I think it might help with balancing stuff, because you can create a hero specialized to defeat Summoners, for example.

I'm done now.

How low is rine going to be lowered to? I can't stand pure-hp rines.

Marine's upgrade will be +2. I'd have no problem with HP going back up after that.

Anyway, I see people (well, dR.uNKen, anyway) picking a fast class, running in a lane, getting spawns from that spawn to chase, then running to another lane to take XP from multiple paths. It's kinda lame and IMO something should be done about that.

Worst batch of suggestions I've ever seen.(And we've had baaaaad ones)

Or, RE-HOTKEY YOUR UNIT.
Now from the pro that didn't know what Nuke was:
The old 210 dmg reavers w/ way more health at only $120 have been beatin. What part of kill the spawner don't you get. And when you do finally start killing the reavers, the game is over due to the exp gap.
Not a stupid suggestion, but I'd like to point out that I only see temple die from reavers now. Temple killing through unit spells and such I believe is extinct.
How about one more dumb suggestion that needs no rebuttal.


Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Dec 23 2008, 12:10 am by ClansAreForGays.