So we make them more efficient. That's the difference between hydrogen and solar--you can make solar more efficient by increasing reliability and decreasing cost of manufacturing, but hydrogen wont become more efficient.

So we make them more efficient. That's the difference between hydrogen and solar--you can make solar more efficient by increasing reliability and decreasing cost of manufacturing, but hydrogen wont become more efficient.

[quote=name:Falkoner][quote]Solar: Excellent because it doesn't actually need much space when you decide to simply put it on the roofs of all homes and businesses.[/quote] Wait, so you think hydrogen is a bad choice, but Solar is? I don't know what makes so many people think solar energy is the way to go, as solar panels often do not repay the energy they cost to make in the first place, they wear out or just break before then.[/quote] I'd like a source that its not a worthy investment. My neighbour has made thousands by selling into the grid over the years. Solar panel technology has rapidly advanced recently and is becoming much more cost effective.

Quote from -=(Falkoner)=-

Quote

Solar: Excellent because it doesn't actually need much space when you decide to simply put it on the roofs of all homes and businesses.

Wait, so you think hydrogen is a bad choice, but Solar is? I don't know what makes so many people think solar energy is the way to go, as solar panels often do not repay the energy they cost to make in the first place, they wear out or just break before then.

I'd like a source that its not a worthy investment. My neighbour has made thousands by selling into the grid over the years. Solar panel technology has rapidly advanced recently and is becoming much more cost effective.

[quote=name:WoAHorde][quote=name:Falkoner][quote]Solar: Excellent because it doesn't actually need much space when you decide to simply put it on the roofs of all homes and businesses.[/quote] Wait, so you think hydrogen is a bad choice, but Solar is? I don't know what makes so many people think solar energy is the way to go, as solar panels often do not repay the energy they cost to make in the first place, they wear out or just break before then.[/quote] I'd like a source that its not a worthy investment. My neighbour has made thousands by selling into the grid over the years. Solar panel technology has rapidly advanced recently and is becoming much more cost effective.[/quote] I read (in Science News Weekly magazine I think) that solar panels were becoming more cost effective as they would be able to pay for themselves in less time because of their improved efficiency rather than in the past where they would be more likely to break before they paid for themselves. Ah I found the online version http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/9446/title/Greener_Green_Energy_Todays_solar_cells_give_more_than_they_take

Quote from WoAHorde[MM]

Quote from -=(Falkoner)=-

Quote

Solar: Excellent because it doesn't actually need much space when you decide to simply put it on the roofs of all homes and businesses.

Wait, so you think hydrogen is a bad choice, but Solar is? I don't know what makes so many people think solar energy is the way to go, as solar panels often do not repay the energy they cost to make in the first place, they wear out or just break before then.

I'd like a source that its not a worthy investment. My neighbour has made thousands by selling into the grid over the years. Solar panel technology has rapidly advanced recently and is becoming much more cost effective.

I read (in Science News Weekly magazine I think) that solar panels were becoming more cost effective as they would be able to pay for themselves in less time because of their improved efficiency rather than in the past where they would be more likely to break before they paid for themselves.

Ah I found the online version
http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/9446/title/Greener_Green_Energy_Todays_solar_cells_give_more_than_they_take

[quote=name:SilentAlfa] Hydrogen: Hydrogen fuel is one of the greatest swindles I know. It requires electricity from other sources to produce hydrogen. Hence, you have to put it more energy to make hydrogen than you get out of the fuel. This ultimately decreases efficiency and does nothing to solve anything.[/quote] The whole point of fuel cells is to store energy. and sure using energy right when you get it is most efficient but you can't always do that, so we need to store the energy we produce so it doesn't go to waste.

Quote from SilentAlfa

Hydrogen: Hydrogen fuel is one of the greatest swindles I know. It requires electricity from other sources to produce hydrogen. Hence, you have to put it more energy to make hydrogen than you get out of the fuel. This ultimately decreases efficiency and does nothing to solve anything.

The whole point of fuel cells is to store energy. and sure using energy right when you get it is most efficient but you can't always do that, so we need to store the energy we produce so it doesn't go to waste.

Obama supports net neutrality.

Obama supports net neutrality.

[quote=name:isolatedpurity]Obama supports net neutrality.[/quote] What is net neutrality.

Quote from isolatedpurity

Obama supports net neutrality.

What is net neutrality.

A solution to a problem that doesn't really exist, which could in fact cause more problems.

A solution to a problem that doesn't really exist, which could in fact cause more problems.

What? Leaving the internet alone would not create more problems. And corporate bullshit could indeed make problems for the internet.

What? Leaving the internet alone would not create more problems. And corporate bullshit could indeed make problems for the internet.

Net Neutrality is how the Internet currently is, neutral, with no bias or restriction on content, sites, or platforms. There are people who want to change that, creating "tiers" of speed. Servers and websites that [i]pay[/i] are put in the fast lane. Sites that do not are marginalized with slow speed. [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lgcg6aG9nWI]PhillyD[/url] (1:00 in, contains some language) [url=http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=126985&title=headlines-internet]The Daily Show 1[/url] ([url=http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=110008&title=party-pooper]+ addition lulz[/url]) [url=http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=114648&title=net-neutrality-act&tag=generic_tag_ted_stevens&itemId=109927]The Daily Show 2[/url] (deeper explanation) [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H69eCYcDcuQ]Ask a Ninja[/url]

Net Neutrality is how the Internet currently is, neutral, with no bias or restriction on content, sites, or platforms. There are people who want to change that, creating "tiers" of speed. Servers and websites that pay are put in the fast lane. Sites that do not are marginalized with slow speed.

PhillyD (1:00 in, contains some language)
The Daily Show 1 (+ addition lulz)
The Daily Show 2 (deeper explanation)
Ask a Ninja

LOL at the end of ask a ninja... (with the wall and glue)

LOL at the end of ask a ninja... (with the wall and glue)

[quote=name:isolatedpurity]What? Leaving the internet alone would not create more problems. And corporate bullshit could indeed make problems for the internet.[/quote] What I meant was this: Network Neutrality is legislation to control the internet to prevent a problem that currently does not exist in the United States, and isn't clearly defined. Prematurely passing such a bill could prevent problems that it seeks to stop. For example, Google posted a bill on their public policy page. An analyst found a loophole that allowed ISPs to create tiered networks anyway. Besides, there could be benefits from a discriminatory net.

Quote from isolatedpurity

What? Leaving the internet alone would not create more problems. And corporate bullshit could indeed make problems for the internet.

What I meant was this:
Network Neutrality is legislation to control the internet to prevent a problem that currently does not exist in the United States, and isn't clearly defined. Prematurely passing such a bill could prevent problems that it seeks to stop. For example, Google posted a bill on their public policy page. An analyst found a loophole that allowed ISPs to create tiered networks anyway. Besides, there could be benefits from a discriminatory net.

[url=http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/rss/topstories/*http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080805/ap_on_el_pr/presidential_race_ap_poll]Good news for Obama supporters[/url].

Good news for Obama supporters.

[quote=name:ihjel][quote=name:SilentAlfa] Hydrogen: Hydrogen fuel is one of the greatest swindles I know. It requires electricity from other sources to produce hydrogen. Hence, you have to put it more energy to make hydrogen than you get out of the fuel. This ultimately decreases efficiency and does nothing to solve anything.[/quote] The whole point of fuel cells is to store energy. and sure using energy right when you get it is most efficient but you can't always do that, so we need to store the energy we produce so it doesn't go to waste.[/quote] Why should we store energy from powerplants when we can use it as it is produced? The fuel for vehicles can be produced from ethanol. Hence, hydrogen fuel cells are essentially useless.

Quote from ihjel

Quote from SilentAlfa

Hydrogen: Hydrogen fuel is one of the greatest swindles I know. It requires electricity from other sources to produce hydrogen. Hence, you have to put it more energy to make hydrogen than you get out of the fuel. This ultimately decreases efficiency and does nothing to solve anything.

The whole point of fuel cells is to store energy. and sure using energy right when you get it is most efficient but you can't always do that, so we need to store the energy we produce so it doesn't go to waste.

Why should we store energy from powerplants when we can use it as it is produced? The fuel for vehicles can be produced from ethanol. Hence, hydrogen fuel cells are essentially useless.

What about solar power? It takes time to build up energy. That energy could be stored in hydrogen fuel cells.

What about solar power? It takes time to build up energy. That energy could be stored in hydrogen fuel cells.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLtmXQQGJOQ Don't bother trying to comment, they just deny anyone that doesn't share their view.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLtmXQQGJOQ

Don't bother trying to comment, they just deny anyone that doesn't share their view.

That's retarded. He might as well be praying for Obama's death, it would help his own personal (and stupid) values. No fucking difference.

That's retarded. He might as well be praying for Obama's death, it would help his own personal (and stupid) values. No fucking difference.

[quote=name:SilentAlfa][quote=name:ihjel][quote=name:SilentAlfa] Hydrogen: Hydrogen fuel is one of the greatest swindles I know. It requires electricity from other sources to produce hydrogen. Hence, you have to put it more energy to make hydrogen than you get out of the fuel. This ultimately decreases efficiency and does nothing to solve anything.[/quote] The whole point of fuel cells is to store energy. and sure using energy right when you get it is most efficient but you can't always do that, so we need to store the energy we produce so it doesn't go to waste.[/quote] Why should we store energy from powerplants when we can use it as it is produced? The fuel for vehicles can be produced from ethanol. Hence, hydrogen fuel cells are essentially useless.[/quote] Because we are running out of fossil fuels and renewable energy like solar and wind only work at certain times so we need to store the energy for later. Bio ethanol has caused the price of food to skyrocket so it's a bad solution.

Quote from SilentAlfa

Quote from ihjel

Quote from SilentAlfa

Hydrogen: Hydrogen fuel is one of the greatest swindles I know. It requires electricity from other sources to produce hydrogen. Hence, you have to put it more energy to make hydrogen than you get out of the fuel. This ultimately decreases efficiency and does nothing to solve anything.

The whole point of fuel cells is to store energy. and sure using energy right when you get it is most efficient but you can't always do that, so we need to store the energy we produce so it doesn't go to waste.

Why should we store energy from powerplants when we can use it as it is produced? The fuel for vehicles can be produced from ethanol. Hence, hydrogen fuel cells are essentially useless.

Because we are running out of fossil fuels and renewable energy like solar and wind only work at certain times so we need to store the energy for later. Bio ethanol has caused the price of food to skyrocket so it's a bad solution.

[quote=name:SilentAlfa]Why should we store energy from powerplants when we can use it as it is produced? The fuel for vehicles can be produced from ethanol. Hence, hydrogen fuel cells are essentially useless.[/quote] Ethenol comes from -- mainly -- corn, which requires room to grow. In order for all our cars to run on ethenol, we would need the room to grow these plants, which just isn't economically acceptable. Hydrogen fuel cells are reusable and don't require us to use huge amounts of land to grow corn.

Quote from SilentAlfa

Why should we store energy from powerplants when we can use it as it is produced? The fuel for vehicles can be produced from ethanol. Hence, hydrogen fuel cells are essentially useless.

Ethenol comes from -- mainly -- corn, which requires room to grow. In order for all our cars to run on ethenol, we would need the room to grow these plants, which just isn't economically acceptable. Hydrogen fuel cells are reusable and don't require us to use huge amounts of land to grow corn.

[url=http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/08/08/time-an-antichrist-obama-in-mccain-ad/]McCain tries a little too hard... yet it is a very fucking stupid move by McCain.[/url]

McCain tries a little too hard... yet it is a very fucking stupid move by McCain.

[quote=name:dumbducky][quote=name:Hercanic][quote=dumbducky]Solar: Not quite efficient enough yet, takes up lots of space, and doesn't work at night.[/quote] Replace everyone's roof with solar panels. Especially in places like Arizona and New Mexico. Done. Not working at night is handled by simply storing energy from the day. As long as we have the sun, we have plenty of energy. When oil runs out, we will simply be motivated to innovate.[/quote] Because the money for such a thing just grows on trees.[/quote] Technically, yes it does. Our money isn't backed by a damn thing.

Quote from dumbducky

Quote from Hercanic

Quote from dumbducky

Solar: Not quite efficient enough yet, takes up lots of space, and doesn't work at night.

Replace everyone's roof with solar panels. Especially in places like Arizona and New Mexico. Done. Not working at night is handled by simply storing energy from the day.

As long as we have the sun, we have plenty of energy. When oil runs out, we will simply be motivated to innovate.

Because the money for such a thing just grows on trees.

Technically, yes it does. Our money isn't backed by a damn thing.