Dear Poiuy Qwert:
Well, the need for an outside program was never clear. Thus the confusion.

EDIT:
Reading over your first post and here to make sure I didn't overlook anything, the only mention of Python I found is that PyMS uses it, not that PyMS requires it to run. Maybe those familiar with Python would automatically know you need it to run applications made with it, but I'm certainly not familiar with Python. No ReadMe provided, either. Without basic setup instructions provided at the forefront, you've accidentally ramped up your program's barrier to entry, and as such could be losing out on a number of testers.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Sep 22 2008, 10:01 pm by Hercanic.

I see. I'll update the first post to make it more clear. As to your edit:
You're right, I don't supply a readme.txt, but I would have thought that once you noticed its not there, the next logical step is to check the Docs folder, and once there intro.html seems like an obvious choice too.

Do you think that with enough this might eventually replace our current modding tools?

Just curious.

-

Just noticed that it gives weapon ranges in pixels (I think; based on a picture).
If it is actually measured in pixels, then that is just sick. Would SC round pixel values to the matrices?

No idea, all i know is they replaced the current tools for me.

And the weapon range is the same as DatEdit, unless i don't know what you mean.

Edit: Oh you are talking about whats in the tooltip in the screenshot? No, thats the "Y Offset" tooltip, which is not the range.

Edit2: Ooh, or did you mean how the ATS Laser Battery (21) has a max range of 192 instead of 12? Either that was a bug in 1.3 that has been fixed (PyDAT is at 1.6 now), or I had changed the value myself.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Oct 1 2008, 2:52 am by poiuy_qwert.

Dear Poiuy Qwert:
Whenever testing your own creations, or that of someone else's, abandon all assumptions. If I really put my brain to it and read through everything, I'd have probably figured it out. I don't do that, intentionally, on anything I'm giving feedback on. I put myself in a basic, unassuming state of mind to mimic the average person, as a means of really feeling out the user-friendliness of something. Long ago, I once said this, in so many words, to DarkWizzard, and he later told me it really helped him with designing user-friendliness.

Now, you could simply create a shortcut to intro.html in the main folder. However, since installation is so essential, it really should be the only thing to concern the user with at first. Intro.html has a lot of extra stuff, "Changes" being your first category, burying those crucial instructions and making their location less obvious. This program requires unusual preparations, so the user needs to be made well-aware of that. I'd suggest separating the setup instructions and putting them on prominent display out front, in the main folder, with a to-the-point name.

I don't think an average person would ignore the Docs folder when looking for a readme or install instructions. Also, the actual first thing in Intro.html is the description with a table of contents, which lists Installation (Changes is an important part of docs, you upgrade more then you install).
Thanks for your advice, but I don't think its necessary.

Dear Poiuy Qwert:
You are assuming people think like you, that they will make the same 'logical' conclusions you have. I can assure you, in unwavering, literal fact, that that is not true. Teach kids sometime, and you'll experience firsthand the drastically different modes of thinking and approaches that can exist.

Also consider, how difficult would my suggestion really be to execute? A right-click drag -> create shortcut, or a separate document with just the copied & pasted install instructions saved in the main folder? This is your project, I respect your decision, but do you really feel I am so wrong on this point that any accommodations, no matter how small, are entirely unnecessary?

I don't want to clutter up the main folder, and I want to keep documentation in a central area (specifically in the form i have it), and i find you wrong enough not to change it. Also, I'm fairly certain windows shortcuts don't work on Macs or Linux. If enough people are complain enough, they might annoy me into doing it, but until then I'm fine with the way it is.

I just uploaded a new release of PyMS, containing many fixes and new features. I highly recommend upgrading. Check the main post or follow the links in my sig.

I'll download this and use it tonight when I work on my mod

Thanks for the support! Ask any questions or give comments/ideas/bugs if you have em, im glad to help. Good luck with your mod!

wow
all modding tools in one, and it is even more powerful i think....
nice work.... damn i also want to learn how to program programs :l

Ok BIG news! I have successfully compiled all the programs into windows EXE's! Windows users are no longer required to install Python, just download PyMS and run it!

Download Here!

Edit: In my thanksgiving haste i forgot to include unitdef.txt, and didn't notice PyICE did not work. I just uploaded the fixed zip, so if you are one of the 7 that downloaded the other version you should update.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Oct 14 2008, 9:18 pm by poiuy_qwert.

YAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I
WANT
TO
CUDDLE
YOU
RIGHT
NOW
TELL
ME
YOUR
ADDRESS

I really do wish I had caught onto this earlier.

Well im glad you like it

And i'm right here! *cuddles FlyingHat*

Dear Poiuy Qwert:
Are you open to suggestions, or just bug reports?

I am very open to suggestions, in fact I would really love some.

IcePad
It would be really awesome if there was an intermediary editing program between the likes of ICE and IceCC. IceCC is intimidating, but safe. ICE is user-friendly and has a number of helpful reference features (graphic and sound preview, opcode dropdown list, StarEdit trigger format), but causes nasty file corruption.

Naturally, what DatEdit was to Arsenal, something to ICE would be equally grand. However, in the interest of not asking for the moon, how about something a bit simpler: A program that can open the extracted *.txt and provides a Notepad-like editing environment with need-matched enhancements.

Features could include a color-coded structure like your other program environments, opcode list with attached descriptions (tooltips) for quick reference and insertion, maybe even an interpretive input system where as you type it tries to fill in the rest based on the closest match (you can continue typing if it’s incorrect, but otherwise hitting enter with confirm the suggestion).

Once the opcode is identified, the program could then automatically provide the parameter fields the opcode requires to function correctly. Parameters could then be quickly changed with a click-and-type insert function. Such user-friendliness would cut down on a lot of human-error and silly typos or forgotten values.

The program would work with and save as *.txt files, so the .bin is never directly modified.

I never intended to add support for anything other then scripted iscripts, but its possible I might add a classic trig edit type feature into PyICE, since I already plan to do it for PyTRG. I'm also already planning on having an iscript previewer, not just a graphics previewer (use PyGRP for that), which will run parts of scripts and let you change things like burrow/powerup/liftoff settings.


PyICE can easily do that, thats what the Export and Import is for. You can select your scripts in the main window, then either edit them in the built in script editor, or export them to a txt file. You can also import and export inside the internal script editor to include all the extra features it comes with, then compile them into the bin whenever you want.


PyICE has syntax highlighting, a reference generator (actually now that I think about it I may not have put a toolbar button for this, i'll have to check), very informative tooltips, and tab-completion (type the first part of a command/keyword and hit tab to cycle through matches).


The tooltips list the command and paramaters, a description of the command, and then a list of descriptions for all the parameter types. There is also an easy code testing button which gives helpfull errors/warnings to correct your code.

Dear PoiuyQwert:
I completely missed the Iscript Editor in PyICE. It has a lot of what I described in my suggestion. You must be psychic, or a time-traveller. =oP

In the Iscript Editor, if I double-click on any field, then try to right-click on it, sometimes the scrollbar wigs out and jumps somewhere different. It seems to return to wherever my cursor had been previously, or something of that nature.

---

PyMPQ
There is an untapped potential to creating a whole suite of modding applications. It is the ability to tie them all together into a cohesive system with the ability to jump across to relevant areas fluidly. If I’m editing the Siege Tank in the Dat editor, the ability to jump to its Iscript, TBL string, or *.LO to edit it would be phenomenal.

"PyMPQ" would be a visual hub program where all other Py applications can be accessed. From PyMPQ, you could open your mod’s MPQ, and then any subset Py program you open from the hub will automatically reference from the files inside your mod.


To summarize:
- One program to access all other applications from
- Can open your mod's MPQ
- All Py applications will default to that MPQ
- Cross-application Jump buttons


_

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Nov 7 2008, 9:13 pm by Hercanic.