Aggressive AI
May 25 2008, 10:24 am
By: Kow  

May 25 2008, 10:24 am Kow Post #1



I'm making a defense map, and I wanted to make it so units, if they can't make it though, will attack, but only if they can't make it though, as to prevent walling. I tried Order(move) but it doesn't seem to want to attack. I'm using Civs to block, so that might make a difference. Is there an AI Script I can enable that'll cause that, or am I doomed to have to make a vote-unwall?



None.

May 25 2008, 11:07 am pneumatic Post #2



As far as I know, any AI script would just make the computer attack in that situation without trying to move through first.

I would create a location on the other side of the wall, and if the computer doesn't bring any units to that location by a set amount of time after the defense round begins, then order them to attack to whatever the goal is.

Another way to do it is to create a location in front of the wall where they bunch up when blocked. Have a trigger that orders the computer to attack if there are a certain number of computer units in that location.

If you need to, you can always re-issue the move order to stop them from attacking again.



None.

May 25 2008, 1:26 pm Clokr_ Post #3



I made a concept map with a wall-checking system, but it'd only work for unit defenses since it needs a burrowed unit/spider mines grid and you wouldn't be able to build over them :P

EDIT: Actually I uploaded it to the DLDB:
http://www.staredit.net/files/431/

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on May 25 2008, 1:42 pm by Clokr_.



?????

May 25 2008, 2:39 pm NudeRaider Post #4

We can't explain the universe, just describe it; and we don't know whether our theories are true, we just know they're not wrong. >Harald Lesch

Quote from name:razorsnail
I would create a location on the other side of the wall, and if the computer doesn't bring any units to that location by a set amount of time after the defense round begins, then order them to attack to whatever the goal is.
How would you know where the player builds his wall?

Quote from name:razorsnail
Another way to do it is to create a location in front of the wall where they bunch up when blocked. Have a trigger that orders the computer to attack if there are a certain number of computer units in that location.
Same problem as above. How would you know where to look for bunched up units?
Also bunching up is not necessarily a sign of a wall. There are certain build styles that make the comp run into a dead end first and then turn so the units block each other and need much longer to pass your defense.

A cheesy but pretty reliable way is to send an invincible quick ground units along the path and start the level only until all runners have finished. This method works best with immobile defenders.
Ahli did that in a defense map of his. I think it's called SC Maul.




May 25 2008, 8:58 pm Clokr_ Post #5



The DLDB doesn't allow me to update the map version, so I attach here v1.1. I made some copies of 3 triggers and now it works 10x faster :)

Attachments:
WallingCheckv1.1.scx
Hits: 1 Size: 46.92kb



?????

May 25 2008, 11:30 pm Falkoner Post #6



I believe most defense maps use the "Move" order, as it attempts to move through and then if it cannot after a while it decides to attack. There are ways to trick it into thinking it can still move, but that's the tried-and-true method.



None.

May 26 2008, 1:52 am pneumatic Post #7



Quote from NudeRaider
Quote from name:razorsnail
I would create a location on the other side of the wall, and if the computer doesn't bring any units to that location by a set amount of time after the defense round begins, then order them to attack to whatever the goal is.
How would you know where the player builds his wall?

Quote from name:razorsnail
Another way to do it is to create a location in front of the wall where they bunch up when blocked. Have a trigger that orders the computer to attack if there are a certain number of computer units in that location.
Same problem as above. How would you know where to look for bunched up units?
Also bunching up is not necessarily a sign of a wall. There are certain build styles that make the comp run into a dead end first and then turn so the units block each other and need much longer to pass your defense.

A cheesy but pretty reliable way is to send an invincible quick ground units along the path and start the level only until all runners have finished. This method works best with immobile defenders.
Ahli did that in a defense map of his. I think it's called SC Maul.
I was assuming that the walls were pre-placed. The runner method sounds like a good one for a map where players build their own walls.



None.

May 26 2008, 11:17 am NudeRaider Post #8

We can't explain the universe, just describe it; and we don't know whether our theories are true, we just know they're not wrong. >Harald Lesch

Quote from name:razorsnail
I was assuming that the walls were pre-placed. The runner method sounds like a good one for a map where players build their own walls.
preplaced walls? wtf? Which map maker would screw his own def map by preplacing unpassable walls?
Do you mean preplaced chokes where it's likely the player's block the path?




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[05:21 pm]
NudeRaider -- Oh_Man
Oh_Man shouted: NudeRaider yeh thts straight up cheating
the mutas yes, the wraiths probably not. Have you even watched the video? ;)
[12:56 pm]
Oh_Man -- NudeRaider
NudeRaider shouted: Oh_Man Artosis hasn't caught on how devastating the perfect focus fire is. With the mutas he was like "the Mutas always seem to have less hp than against a human". But he didn't notice that the flock he had selected always just had one muta that was hurt. Same with the wraiths here. He's talking about how valks+wraith is gonna destroy Pluto's valks, then 5s later he's dumbfounded the human player's air is just gone and he never figured out why. And for some reason didn't even think to go back and look at the battle.
yeh thts straight up cheating
[12:24 pm]
Oh_Man -- arty's done another vid. he's also announced he's going to organise showmatches with pro, with NO maphacks, so we can see its actual capabilities
[2026-9-23. : 10:09 am]
NimoStar -- It can by playing the same map thousands of times. It is similar to AI speedrunning games
[2026-9-23. : 2:30 am]
Symmetry -- I dreamed about that as a kid. The idea of a computer capable of analyzing a starcraft map and calculating the fastest possible way to hit the victory condition
[2026-9-23. : 2:29 am]
Symmetry -- But can AI beat my custom maps?
[2026-9-22. : 12:32 pm]
Oh_Man -- yea APM vs eAPM
[2026-9-22. : 8:48 am]
NimoStar -- plus most of the human APM is just spam clicking APM inflation
[2026-9-22. : 8:47 am]
NimoStar -- the thing with the "*12" thing is completely misleading. The AI isn't using two control groups, it can use each of those actions to command a single unit individually and issue different commands to each single unit.
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