So. Do you know what it is? And do you understand why it is? And do you agree with why? Lemme know.

So. Do you know what it is? And do you understand why it is? And do you agree with why?

Lemme know.

Murder, then comes the law of chastity. Of course, denying God after being a believer might be worse... I'd have to study it a little more.

Murder, then comes the law of chastity.

Of course, denying God after being a believer might be worse... I'd have to study it a little more.

I'd say it's murder. If you end someone's life, there will be people who mourn. Then there might be someone who wishes to avenge the murdered person, which probably leads to more death.

I'd say it's murder. If you end someone's life, there will be people who mourn. Then there might be someone who wishes to avenge the murdered person, which probably leads to more death.

I've heard it to be pride. But why would you think that would be considered the worst?

I've heard it to be pride. But why would you think that would be considered the worst?

The thing about murder is that there is really no way to completely repent of it, you cannot repair the damage. Pride leads to worse sins, which might be why someone said that.

The thing about murder is that there is really no way to completely repent of it, you cannot repair the damage. Pride leads to worse sins, which might be why someone said that.

Well the idea behind sin as I see it is not the specific ends it produces (the 'murder' of someone, as you claim), but the overall logical outcome that comes of using it as a choice. Pride is considered the worst because it leads to some of the worst outcomes overall. But how so?

Well the idea behind sin as I see it is not the specific ends it produces (the 'murder' of someone, as you claim), but the overall logical outcome that comes of using it as a choice. Pride is considered the worst because it leads to some of the worst outcomes overall.

But how so?

Sin is a concept created by, and enforced by, religion. Religion is false, therefore, sin is false.

Sin is a concept created by, and enforced by, religion. Religion is false, therefore, sin is false.

[quote=name:Anonymous]Sin is a concept created by, and enforced by, religion. Religion is false, therefore, sin is false.[/quote] Sin is merely an abstract concept. It doesn't necessarily have to be bound to the religious context (even though that's where it's the most popular). For the record, I'm agnostic.

Quote from Anonymous

Sin is a concept created by, and enforced by, religion. Religion is false, therefore, sin is false.

Sin is merely an abstract concept. It doesn't necessarily have to be bound to the religious context (even though that's where it's the most popular).

For the record, I'm agnostic.

[quote]Religion is false[/quote] False. Think about it, certain pride is okay, you can have pride in your work, but often people get caught up in their pride, such as Solomon, who started out faithful, then became very evil as he became caught up in his pride, it is hard to remain humble when you are so blessed.

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Religion is false

False.

Think about it, certain pride is okay, you can have pride in your work, but often people get caught up in their pride, such as Solomon, who started out faithful, then became very evil as he became caught up in his pride, it is hard to remain humble when you are so blessed.

[quote=name:Tuxedo-Templar]So. Do you know what it is? And do you understand why it is? And do you agree with why? Lemme know.[/quote] First of all one should establish what qualifies as sin. What are the conditions necessary for something to be considered a "sin"? Once you do that you then have to establish some way to compare two different sins. What makes one sin "worse" than the other? And then who's to say those conclusions are "right", or if the sin is even "wrong" in the first place? [quote=name:Falkoner]Murder, then comes the law of chastity. Of course, denying God after being a believer might be worse... I'd have to study it a little more.[/quote] Lulz, drunken was telling me how he had a friend who was a hardcore fundie and then he converted and now he's a hardcore atheist. [quote=name:FlyingHat]I'd say it's murder. If you end someone's life, there will be people who mourn. Then there might be someone who wishes to avenge the murdered person, which probably leads to more death.[/quote] Why is death "wrong"? All things die. I won't anticipate any responses you might make right now, but I will have a reply for them after they have actually been brought up. [quote]The thing about murder is that there is really no way to completely repent of it, you cannot repair the damage. Pride leads to worse sins, which might be why someone said that.[/quote] How does one ever truly repent anything? How are the actions valued and can one ever be done repenting? Can anything ever be "repaired"? [quote]Well the idea behind sin as I see it is not the specific ends it produces (the 'murder' of someone, as you claim), but the overall logical outcome that comes of using it as a choice. Pride is considered the worst because it leads to some of the worst outcomes overall. But how so?[/quote] "Worst" outcomes? [quote]Sin is merely an abstract concept. It doesn't necessarily have to be bound to the religious context (even though that's where it's the most popular).[/quote] Are concepts, thoughts, ideas, emotions [i]real[/i]? Do they [i]exist[/i]? [quote]Think about it, certain pride is okay, you can have pride in your work, but often people get caught up in their pride, such as Solomon, who started out faithful, then became very evil as he became caught up in his pride, it is hard to remain humble when you are so blessed.[/quote] What is pride in the first place? Where does one draw the line between "good" and "bad" pride?

Quote from Tuxedo-Templar

So. Do you know what it is? And do you understand why it is? And do you agree with why?

Lemme know.

First of all one should establish what qualifies as sin. What are the conditions necessary for something to be considered a "sin"? Once you do that you then have to establish some way to compare two different sins. What makes one sin "worse" than the other? And then who's to say those conclusions are "right", or if the sin is even "wrong" in the first place?

Quote from Falkoner

Murder, then comes the law of chastity.

Of course, denying God after being a believer might be worse... I'd have to study it a little more.

Lulz, drunken was telling me how he had a friend who was a hardcore fundie and then he converted and now he's a hardcore atheist.

Quote from FlyingHat

I'd say it's murder. If you end someone's life, there will be people who mourn. Then there might be someone who wishes to avenge the murdered person, which probably leads to more death.

Why is death "wrong"? All things die.

I won't anticipate any responses you might make right now, but I will have a reply for them after they have actually been brought up.

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The thing about murder is that there is really no way to completely repent of it, you cannot repair the damage. Pride leads to worse sins, which might be why someone said that.

How does one ever truly repent anything? How are the actions valued and can one ever be done repenting? Can anything ever be "repaired"?

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Well the idea behind sin as I see it is not the specific ends it produces (the 'murder' of someone, as you claim), but the overall logical outcome that comes of using it as a choice. Pride is considered the worst because it leads to some of the worst outcomes overall.

But how so?

"Worst" outcomes?

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Sin is merely an abstract concept. It doesn't necessarily have to be bound to the religious context (even though that's where it's the most popular).

Are concepts, thoughts, ideas, emotions real? Do they exist?

Quote

Think about it, certain pride is okay, you can have pride in your work, but often people get caught up in their pride, such as Solomon, who started out faithful, then became very evil as he became caught up in his pride, it is hard to remain humble when you are so blessed.

What is pride in the first place? Where does one draw the line between "good" and "bad" pride?

[quote=name:Falkoner][quote]Religion is false[/quote] False. Think about it, certain pride is okay, you can have pride in your work, but often people get caught up in their pride, such as Solomon, who started out faithful, then became very evil as he became caught up in his pride, it is hard to remain humble when you are so blessed.[/quote] All religion disagrees, all religion states itself as the implicit ultimate truth, therefore, religion is false. A specific faith? Maybe not. But the concept? Yes. The worst sin as classically defined, or as I can think of? Probably on both counts, rape. (As in, rape/murder together. Probably in either order.)

Quote from Falkoner

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Religion is false

False.

Think about it, certain pride is okay, you can have pride in your work, but often people get caught up in their pride, such as Solomon, who started out faithful, then became very evil as he became caught up in his pride, it is hard to remain humble when you are so blessed.

All religion disagrees, all religion states itself as the implicit ultimate truth, therefore, religion is false.

A specific faith? Maybe not. But the concept? Yes.

The worst sin as classically defined, or as I can think of?

Probably on both counts, rape. (As in, rape/murder together. Probably in either order.)

[quote=name:devilesk][quote]Well the idea behind sin as I see it is not the specific ends it produces (the 'murder' of someone, as you claim), but the overall logical outcome that comes of using it as a choice. Pride is considered the worst because it leads to some of the worst outcomes overall. But how so?[/quote] "Worst" outcomes?[/quote] That's what I'm trying to discuss here. What is "worst", and why is pride considered the main way to get to it?

Quote from devilesk

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Well the idea behind sin as I see it is not the specific ends it produces (the 'murder' of someone, as you claim), but the overall logical outcome that comes of using it as a choice. Pride is considered the worst because it leads to some of the worst outcomes overall.

But how so?

"Worst" outcomes?

That's what I'm trying to discuss here. What is "worst", and why is pride considered the main way to get to it?

[quote=name:Tuxedo-Templar][quote=name:devilesk][quote]Well the idea behind sin as I see it is not the specific ends it produces (the 'murder' of someone, as you claim), but the overall logical outcome that comes of using it as a choice. Pride is considered the worst because it leads to some of the worst outcomes overall. But how so?[/quote] "Worst" outcomes?[/quote] That's what I'm trying to discuss here. What is "worst", and why is pride considered the main way to get to it?[/quote] Oh sin as in the worst outcome? Ya. Suicide.

Quote from Tuxedo-Templar

Quote from devilesk

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Well the idea behind sin as I see it is not the specific ends it produces (the 'murder' of someone, as you claim), but the overall logical outcome that comes of using it as a choice. Pride is considered the worst because it leads to some of the worst outcomes overall.

But how so?

"Worst" outcomes?

That's what I'm trying to discuss here. What is "worst", and why is pride considered the main way to get to it?

Oh sin as in the worst outcome? Ya. Suicide.

[quote=name:Tuxedo-Templar][quote=name:devilesk][quote]Well the idea behind sin as I see it is not the specific ends it produces (the 'murder' of someone, as you claim), but the overall logical outcome that comes of using it as a choice. Pride is considered the worst because it leads to some of the worst outcomes overall. But how so?[/quote] "Worst" outcomes?[/quote] That's what I'm trying to discuss here. What is "worst", and why is pride considered the main way to get to it?[/quote] Well who says pride is considered the main way to get at it? You didn't start the topic out with much information.

Quote from Tuxedo-Templar

Quote from devilesk

Quote

Well the idea behind sin as I see it is not the specific ends it produces (the 'murder' of someone, as you claim), but the overall logical outcome that comes of using it as a choice. Pride is considered the worst because it leads to some of the worst outcomes overall.

But how so?

"Worst" outcomes?

That's what I'm trying to discuss here. What is "worst", and why is pride considered the main way to get to it?

Well who says pride is considered the main way to get at it? You didn't start the topic out with much information.

[quote]All religion disagrees, all religion states itself as the implicit ultimate truth, therefore, religion is false.[/quote] No. Rape... It definitely disobeys the law of chastity, making it an extremely severe sin, but I'm still not certain if it beats out murder.

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All religion disagrees, all religion states itself as the implicit ultimate truth, therefore, religion is false.

No.

Rape... It definitely disobeys the law of chastity, making it an extremely severe sin, but I'm still not certain if it beats out murder.

[quote=name:Falkoner][quote]All religion disagrees, all religion states itself as the implicit ultimate truth, therefore, religion is false.[/quote] No. Rape... It definitely disobeys the law of chastity, making it an extremely severe sin, but I'm still not certain if it beats out murder.[/quote] Define "rape".

Quote from Falkoner

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All religion disagrees, all religion states itself as the implicit ultimate truth, therefore, religion is false.

No.

Rape... It definitely disobeys the law of chastity, making it an extremely severe sin, but I'm still not certain if it beats out murder.

Define "rape".

[quote=name:Falkoner][quote]All religion disagrees, all religion states itself as the implicit ultimate truth, therefore, religion is false.[/quote] No.[/quote] WHAT A WITTY AND WELL CONSTRUCTED RETORT. YOUR VIEWS HAVE FOREVER ALTERED MINE. And what the hell is a law of chastity?

Quote from Falkoner

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All religion disagrees, all religion states itself as the implicit ultimate truth, therefore, religion is false.

No.

WHAT A WITTY AND WELL CONSTRUCTED RETORT. YOUR VIEWS HAVE FOREVER ALTERED MINE.

And what the hell is a law of chastity?

Denying God after believing in him and receiving a witness of him is probably the worst, because at that point you tend to become so bad that murder is nothing. [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_chastity]Law of Chastity[/url]

Denying God after believing in him and receiving a witness of him is probably the worst, because at that point you tend to become so bad that murder is nothing.

Law of Chastity

[quote=name:Falkoner]Denying God after believing in him and receiving a witness of him is probably the worst, because at that point you tend to become so bad that murder is nothing.[/quote] Yea, because after denouncing god people are instantly overwhelmed with evil and go on murderous rampages and become indifferent to the world. BLASPHEMY CHALLENGE!

Quote from Falkoner

Denying God after believing in him and receiving a witness of him is probably the worst, because at that point you tend to become so bad that murder is nothing.

Yea, because after denouncing god people are instantly overwhelmed with evil and go on murderous rampages and become indifferent to the world.

BLASPHEMY CHALLENGE!

There is no one 'worst sin'. It depends on the individual person's values.

There is no one 'worst sin'. It depends on the individual person's values.