Staredit Network > Forums > SC1 Melee Map Projects > Topic: (4)Crazy Sexy Marvellous
(4)Crazy Sexy Marvellous
Sep 3 2007, 3:35 am
By: Ultraviolet  

Sep 3 2007, 3:35 am Ultraviolet Post #1



So, I'm not great at this melee map making thing, but every once in a while I like to give it a whirl, so any suggestions on this would be appreciated. It's going to be decorated later if it can be salvaged from what I've done to it. So, here it is!

Updated Version:




If image does not show up (like it doesn't for me) just click this link

Post has been edited 5 time(s), last time on Apr 20 2008, 10:39 pm by NerdyTerdy.




Sep 3 2007, 4:30 am LoveMeleemaps Post #2



ya man your map looks rad. I kinda wanna play it. U could spice it up a lil with water terrain around the bulky islands in the middle :)



None.

Sep 3 2007, 6:04 am Ultraviolet Post #3



Oh yeah, I plan to decorate later, are there any things you see that could be disadvantageous to certain races?

I tried to make the paths wide enough for protoss to be able to flank, and the rock terrain so terrans can't push with turrets (I think this is necessary?)

I also tried to make sure that there was enough money that people weren't out immediately, but not so much that they wouldn't have to fight for it.

Edit: Btw, thank you :)


Post has been edited 3 time(s), last time on Apr 20 2008, 10:39 pm by NerdyTerdy.




Sep 3 2007, 6:55 am Excalibur Post #4

The sword and the faith

Too tight, 2 enterances is bad for Z, mains are WAY too small, you need inverted ramps for it to be balanced.

I see no future for this design/layout.




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The sword and the faith.

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Sep 3 2007, 7:10 am Ultraviolet Post #5



Quote from Excalibur
Too tight, 2 enterances is bad for Z, mains are WAY too small, you need inverted ramps for it to be balanced.

I see no future for this design/layout.

Yeah, I seem to have a problem with making mains too small. I think this can be fixed.

I don't think it being too tight can't be worked around.

I'm pretty sure two entrances can be made up for in other ways.

Last, you need inverted ramps for it to be exactly equal, but I don't think they have to be exactly equal to be balanced. Lost Temple for example, that is considered a balanced map, right? It certainly doesn't have inverted ramps.

Overall, I think it should be able to be worked around in such a way that doesn't require scrapping the map, or getting rid of the design, it just will take a bit of work.


Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Apr 20 2008, 10:40 pm by NerdyTerdy.




Sep 3 2007, 7:11 am Demented Shaman Post #6



I don't like how straight the whole thing is. It looks unnatural.



None.

Sep 3 2007, 7:29 am TitanWing Post #7



LT is a horribly imbalanced map, dude. Tankable naturals, positional imbalance, CC float islands...it's only on the WGT mappack because lots of people play it and it's as close as Blizzard could get to making a good map (and Blood Bath and BGH didn't qualify).

The whole symmetrical, geometrical design of the map is very aesthetically repulsive. This wouldn't look quite so bad on space platform, but it will still be imbalanced.

TvZ - T wins due to 2 entrances into mains
PvT - T wins again due to the whole map being a choke point with no maneuvering/flanking space
ZvP - P is very limited in BOs because any tech BO will get rushed to death, it can still be balanced to a degree, but it's not gonna be fun for P



None.

Sep 3 2007, 8:00 am Ultraviolet Post #8



I've seen tons of games on LT and it doesn't seem horribly imbalanced to me. I think you guys have a different idea of horrible imbalanced :\

Once again, the squarish symmetry is temporary, I'll chisel it out a bit later after it is more balanced.

Is there anyway that I can make it so Z isn't screwed by T with the two entrances? I really like the way that is so different in that.

How much would I need to add to the map to make it less of an entire choke point?


Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Apr 20 2008, 10:40 pm by NerdyTerdy.




Sep 3 2007, 8:37 am Excalibur Post #9

The sword and the faith

Nerdy, ill give you a little advice that plauged me as an early melee mapper:
What you think is irrelivent when your being given the opinion of someone who knows a good deal more about melee than you do.

LT has been noted as imbalanced by nearly everyone that knows anything about melee.

If you want to keep the 2 enterences i reccomend this:
Go in scmdraft, sprites, unit sprites, protoss special buildings, and for player 12 place an xel naga temple blocking the high ground. Make sure to place a start location for player 12 so these will show up.




SEN Global Moderator and Resident Zealot
-------------------------
The sword and the faith.

:ex:
Sector 12
My stream, live PC building and tech discussion.

Sep 3 2007, 1:42 pm Valug Post #10



That mineral block in the middle is totally unnecessary. Also, wtb a choke point at mains.

Well, actually, scrap the map. Thats my opinion.




None.

Sep 3 2007, 4:29 pm Ultraviolet Post #11



Quote from Excalibur
Nerdy, ill give you a little advice that plauged me as an early melee mapper:
What you think is irrelivent when your being given the opinion of someone who knows a good deal more about melee than you do.

LT has been noted as imbalanced by nearly everyone that knows anything about melee.

If you want to keep the 2 enterences i reccomend this:
Go in scmdraft, sprites, unit sprites, protoss special buildings, and for player 12 place an xel naga temple blocking the high ground. Make sure to place a start location for player 12 so these will show up.

Yeah, I was actually considering that when I created it and I just didn't know if it was necessary. Should I set the hp to a certain percentage so it doesn't take forever to kill, but it does provide some blocking?

Quote from Valug
That mineral block in the middle is totally unnecessary. Also, wtb a choke point at mains.

Well, actually, scrap the map. Thats my opinion.

Hmm what is wtb? Also, hearing that from you is rather.. disheartening :|

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Apr 20 2008, 10:40 pm by NerdyTerdy.




Sep 3 2007, 5:10 pm Excalibur Post #12

The sword and the faith

Im not sure if percentages work on sprites, map sprites are *relatively* new in melee mapping and i havent explored it fully. For now leave them at 100%, i said XelNaga because that path is into the main and as such should be hard to kill.

I also agree with Valug, im really not liking this design.

If you (rightfully i might add) choose to make a new map, i sugges you do the standard, mains in courners, naturals on the sides leading to the open mid with a min only on the way, and maybe a couple of islands or mid-expos depending.

Good luck.




SEN Global Moderator and Resident Zealot
-------------------------
The sword and the faith.

:ex:
Sector 12
My stream, live PC building and tech discussion.

Sep 3 2007, 5:48 pm Ultraviolet Post #13



Quote from Excalibur
Im not sure if percentages work on sprites, map sprites are *relatively* new in melee mapping and i havent explored it fully. For now leave them at 100%, i said XelNaga because that path is into the main and as such should be hard to kill.

I also agree with Valug, im really not liking this design.

If you (rightfully i might add) choose to make a new map, i sugges you do the standard, mains in courners, naturals on the sides leading to the open mid with a min only on the way, and maybe a couple of islands or mid-expos depending.

Good luck.

Well, I'll quote Valug here:

Quote from Valug
Yeah, those maps are fine, if you want to make the same old map thats been made a thousand times already.

/thumbsdown

So perhaps this isn't the best new design, but I would like something kind of new rather than the standard things.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Apr 20 2008, 10:41 pm by NerdyTerdy.




Sep 3 2007, 5:56 pm Excalibur Post #14

The sword and the faith

Making non-standard or as theyre called experimental maps is what you do AFTER you can successfully make a good and balanced standard map, and do it well.




SEN Global Moderator and Resident Zealot
-------------------------
The sword and the faith.

:ex:
Sector 12
My stream, live PC building and tech discussion.

Sep 3 2007, 6:29 pm Ultraviolet Post #15



I like skipping steps ;)

I've toyed with what you said and I'll add the new pic in a second.


Post has been edited 3 time(s), last time on Apr 20 2008, 10:41 pm by NerdyTerdy.




Sep 3 2007, 7:43 pm Excalibur Post #16

The sword and the faith

Mains still too small, still unbalanced a good deal by the lack of inverts.

No offense but im done giving advice on this map, its got no hope. =/




SEN Global Moderator and Resident Zealot
-------------------------
The sword and the faith.

:ex:
Sector 12
My stream, live PC building and tech discussion.

Sep 3 2007, 8:05 pm Ultraviolet Post #17



Fine, will someone please explain to me why inverted ramps are so damn important?

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Apr 20 2008, 10:42 pm by NerdyTerdy.




Sep 3 2007, 9:14 pm Valug Post #18



wtb = want to buy, mmorpg term. Ive been playing WoW too long.

Also, inverted maps are not important, for the non-believers, there was melee before inverted maps were invented.




None.

Sep 3 2007, 11:17 pm Ultraviolet Post #19



That's what I thought about the inverted ramps. I seem to remember people really calling Ex down on Maplantis for giving overly harsh, and not even very good advice.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Apr 20 2008, 10:41 pm by NerdyTerdy.




Sep 8 2007, 6:54 pm yenku Post #20



No need to scrap.
Just renovate.

What happened to the philosophy that ALL starcraft maps have ONE blockable choke unless you can successfully pull off a backdoor with a block, or just a really obnoxiously long thin choke?

TO RENOVATE:
-Make a reasonable choke to the main.
-Open up the middle for some kind of battleground.
-Add mineral expansions, or gas expansions if you take out the gases in the natural. (since they unbalance)
-Mineral line/Gas node placement.



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