As you may or may not know, apathy is the main factor in keeping people in America from taking action in any sense during this distasteful time. People become complacent in their daily lives waiting for a better salary, trying to improve their lawns or are just too busy "Tivoing" Survivor/American Idol/Desperate HouseWhores. They are happy enough living with high gas prices waiting for the inevitable skyrocket and switch in technologies. They continue this life completely cut off from the despair and terror which is taking place in Iraq, Palestine, Sudan, Iran, Afghanistan, and Pakistan among many others. If one believes things are okay the way they are going -I hate to insult another's intelligence, but..- I think you may be ignorant on the issues. This world could be an amazing place, or at least less doomed to constant warfare if only we found a way to make people care. Compassion and empathy will make people courageous. "Once we find courage", as I quote from the later mentioned article, "we find freedom." Here is a wonderful (and very short) article on the situation today: http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20071210_why_we_resist/ This was written by my closest friend's father. He has worked for the NY times, and has been a journalist in wars for many decades, he has written many great books that I firmly suggest to any heavy and analytical reader. How do you think we can make people understand, become empathetic, become courageous, etc? What are the most effective means? If it means reforming media and/or our current lifestyles, so be it, just try to explain how that can be done. Please read/skim the (SHORT) article before posting your thoughts.

As you may or may not know, apathy is the main factor in keeping people in America from taking action in any sense during this distasteful time. People become complacent in their daily lives waiting for a better salary, trying to improve their lawns or are just too busy "Tivoing" Survivor/American Idol/Desperate HouseWhores. They are happy enough living with high gas prices waiting for the inevitable skyrocket and switch in technologies. They continue this life completely cut off from the despair and terror which is taking place in Iraq, Palestine, Sudan, Iran, Afghanistan, and Pakistan among many others.

If one believes things are okay the way they are going -I hate to insult another's intelligence, but..- I think you may be ignorant on the issues. This world could be an amazing place, or at least less doomed to constant warfare if only we found a way to make people care. Compassion and empathy will make people courageous. "Once we find courage", as I quote from the later mentioned article, "we find freedom."

Here is a wonderful (and very short) article on the situation today: http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20071210_why_we_resist/
This was written by my closest friend's father. He has worked for the NY times, and has been a journalist in wars for many decades, he has written many great books that I firmly suggest to any heavy and analytical reader.

How do you think we can make people understand, become empathetic, become courageous, etc? What are the most effective means? If it means reforming media and/or our current lifestyles, so be it, just try to explain how that can be done.

Please read/skim the (SHORT) article before posting your thoughts.

Not to play devil's advocate, but wouldn't the world be more peaceful if [I]everyone[/I] were apathetic? All the crazy religious fanatics, all the self righteous leaders... get them to not care, and we're good to go.

Not to play devil's advocate, but wouldn't the world be more peaceful if everyone were apathetic? All the crazy religious fanatics, all the self righteous leaders... get them to not care, and we're good to go.

[quote]Not to play devil's advocate, but wouldn't the world be more peaceful if everyone were apathetic? All the crazy religious fanatics, all the self righteous leaders... get them to not care, and we're good to go.[/quote] Mass Apathy? Wow, that's not a good idea..

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Not to play devil's advocate, but wouldn't the world be more peaceful if everyone were apathetic? All the crazy religious fanatics, all the self righteous leaders... get them to not care, and we're good to go.

Mass Apathy?


Wow, that's not a good idea..

I'd explain why mass apathy is a great idea... ... but I just don't care.

I'd explain why mass apathy is a great idea...
... but I just don't care.

In my view, the reason why most of the world hates the US is because we are NOT apathetic. We insist on screwing with the affairs of other countries. It is not the USA or any countries duty to care for the less fortunate ones. Keep in mind that not everyone thinks the way you do, and some never will. If someone does not want to help, you cannot force them to. "out of sight, out of mind"

In my view, the reason why most of the world hates the US is because we are NOT apathetic. We insist on screwing with the affairs of other countries. It is not the USA or any countries duty to care for the less fortunate ones.

Keep in mind that not everyone thinks the way you do, and some never will. If someone does not want to help, you cannot force them to.

"out of sight, out of mind"

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't apathy the highest form of enlightenment in Buddhism?... Anyway... The times when the people of America had to fight for their freedom are long gone. America's people are well-supported financially. So why should they care if most of them are sattisfied with their lives? The mentality of the people is the key factor here.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't apathy the highest form of enlightenment in Buddhism?...

Anyway... The times when the people of America had to fight for their freedom are long gone. America's people are well-supported financially. So why should they care if most of them are sattisfied with their lives? The mentality of the people is the key factor here.

[quote=Mini Moose 2707]I'd explain why mass apathy is a great idea... ... but I just don't care.[/quote] [quote=JaFF]Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't apathy the highest form of enlightenment in Buddhism?...[/quote]Empathy. The goal in buddhism is to have a worldly/interconnected/objective view of everything along with letting go of the Self. [QUOTE=JaFF]Anyway... The times when the people of America had to fight for their freedom are long gone. America's people are well-supported financially. So why should they care if most of them are sattisfied with their lives? The mentality of the people is the key factor here.[/QUOTE]I already know that they are apathetic and they believe they have no reason to care, but my question is: How do we make people care? Or do you think humans are doomed to apathetic societies through their existence?

Quote from Mini Moose 2707

I'd explain why mass apathy is a great idea...
... but I just don't care.

Quote from JaFF

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't apathy the highest form of enlightenment in Buddhism?...

Empathy. The goal in buddhism is to have a worldly/interconnected/objective view of everything along with letting go of the Self.

Quote from JaFF

Anyway... The times when the people of America had to fight for their freedom are long gone. America's people are well-supported financially. So why should they care if most of them are sattisfied with their lives? The mentality of the people is the key factor here.

I already know that they are apathetic and they believe they have no reason to care, but my question is: How do we make people care? Or do you think humans are doomed to apathetic societies through their existence?

[quote=Mini Moose 2707]I'd explain why mass apathy is a great idea... ... but I just don't care.[/quote]Haha, ZING!

Quote from Mini Moose 2707

I'd explain why mass apathy is a great idea...
... but I just don't care.

Haha, ZING!

You can't [I]make[/I] anyone care. I'm sure you're well aware that stupid little wars in which vast empires kick around little countries for resource and political agendas is nothing new. And their populations mostly turned a blind eye to it. It's been happening for thousands of years. It's also foolish to reason that even during times of radical change, [I]everyone[/I] was thinking in active terms. In the 60s, for instance, [I]most[/I] people were just riding out the storm rather than taking strong stances for or against the civil and international conflicts of the time. History remembers those who were active, but they were still a minority in the population. I think the best way to make people care is to convince them that they are in direct danger. People will procrastinate to the point of death, and it's [I]always[/I] been that way. No war in history has ever been unanimously accepted by the populations of their nations, you only hear about more recent ones because in addition to simply being more recent, they were also among the first to be able to record such protests. Maybe that's why protesting seems so new and hip to those that first learn of it. Perhaps the things that you find disgusting about modern society are absolutely essential for the people who will live in the future, and who will never know or understand the struggles that we face now or see how we relate to them. Perhaps I'm just a superb example of an apathetic person. Throughout history, eons of time, most members of any species were condemned to the bottom rungs of their respective economic and social pyramids. Only a select few ever get to live on top... EVER. No matter what. And we are all condemned to die and rot away to be forgotten sooner or later. When faced with that knowledge, I don't see any alternative but to live the most enjoyable life possible, because it doesn't really matter to anyone, ever. I'm sure there are minor social struggles that took place thousands of years ago that would turn out to be absolutely vital to the current stages of human civilization, but we will never know about them or understand them. And should we? It's all so huge and horrifying, and none of it has any reason. The best that I can do is encourage you to do absolutely everything that YOU can do with your short, meaningless lives.

You can't make anyone care.

I'm sure you're well aware that stupid little wars in which vast empires kick around little countries for resource and political agendas is nothing new. And their populations mostly turned a blind eye to it. It's been happening for thousands of years. It's also foolish to reason that even during times of radical change, everyone was thinking in active terms. In the 60s, for instance, most people were just riding out the storm rather than taking strong stances for or against the civil and international conflicts of the time. History remembers those who were active, but they were still a minority in the population.

I think the best way to make people care is to convince them that they are in direct danger. People will procrastinate to the point of death, and it's always been that way. No war in history has ever been unanimously accepted by the populations of their nations, you only hear about more recent ones because in addition to simply being more recent, they were also among the first to be able to record such protests. Maybe that's why protesting seems so new and hip to those that first learn of it. Perhaps the things that you find disgusting about modern society are absolutely essential for the people who will live in the future, and who will never know or understand the struggles that we face now or see how we relate to them.

Perhaps I'm just a superb example of an apathetic person. Throughout history, eons of time, most members of any species were condemned to the bottom rungs of their respective economic and social pyramids. Only a select few ever get to live on top... EVER. No matter what. And we are all condemned to die and rot away to be forgotten sooner or later. When faced with that knowledge, I don't see any alternative but to live the most enjoyable life possible, because it doesn't really matter to anyone, ever. I'm sure there are minor social struggles that took place thousands of years ago that would turn out to be absolutely vital to the current stages of human civilization, but we will never know about them or understand them. And should we?

It's all so huge and horrifying, and none of it has any reason. The best that I can do is encourage you to do absolutely everything that YOU can do with your short, meaningless lives.

[quote=yenku]I already know that they are apathetic and they believe they have no reason to care, but my question is: How do we make people care? Or do you think humans are doomed to apathetic societies through their existence?[/quote] Some societies are more apathetic than others. Look at the Islamic world and compare it to the Western world: their strong traditions made them more active, IMO. I think you can't really make people with mentalities like in the US care if the circumstances around them aren't encouraging that. In other words: the US must wait for something serious to change the way it's people think.

Quote from yenku

I already know that they are apathetic and they believe they have no reason to care, but my question is: How do we make people care? Or do you think humans are doomed to apathetic societies through their existence?

Some societies are more apathetic than others. Look at the Islamic world and compare it to the Western world: their strong traditions made them more active, IMO. I think you can't really make people with mentalities like in the US care if the circumstances around them aren't encouraging that. In other words: the US must wait for something serious to change the way it's people think.

I like your thoughts doodan.

I like your thoughts doodan.

Sorry to whomever may be annoyed by this being brought up again, but I can't resist. [quote=JaFF]In other words: the US must wait for something serious to change the way it's people think.[/quote]This really sticks out to me right now. I have been very bitter in the past over what is happening to our world whether it has to do with America's foreign policy, disregard for the environment or natural rights.. However, I will no longer be angry. I will instead see each action and result that America makes as a lesson to learn. We are learning slowly, which is better than nothing. I can't imagine what ignorant views I would currently have myself if I wasn't raised in this setting. Bush is pulling the same shit now towards Iran that he pulled to get us into Iraq. Except this time, federal agencies are being accountable for their decisions. They will no longer support lies of nuclear weapons or imminent threats to America. People, also, see that Bush is looking for excuses to get into Iran. Thank god for the ability that people have to learn from mistakes. I just hope that I can evoke a response to either narcotic prohibition or corporate America with my writing. Because it is about time the world learns from those mistakes.

Sorry to whomever may be annoyed by this being brought up again, but I can't resist.

Quote from JaFF

In other words: the US must wait for something serious to change the way it's people think.

This really sticks out to me right now. I have been very bitter in the past over what is happening to our world whether it has to do with America's foreign policy, disregard for the environment or natural rights.. However, I will no longer be angry. I will instead see each action and result that America makes as a lesson to learn. We are learning slowly, which is better than nothing. I can't imagine what ignorant views I would currently have myself if I wasn't raised in this setting.
Bush is pulling the same shit now towards Iran that he pulled to get us into Iraq. Except this time, federal agencies are being accountable for their decisions. They will no longer support lies of nuclear weapons or imminent threats to America. People, also, see that Bush is looking for excuses to get into Iran. Thank god for the ability that people have to learn from mistakes.

I just hope that I can evoke a response to either narcotic prohibition or corporate America with my writing. Because it is about time the world learns from those mistakes.

In my opinion, there are three main reasons for the apathy. 1. Most people don't care because it's never present in their lives. People dieing in Darfur: We have nothing to do with Darfur, most people had no idea it existed until people started killing each other. Now we just go, "Oh thats bad, somebody should do something." Overfishing: The only time most people ever see fish is when its at the store, people will start caring when the fish is gone in the store. ECT. 2. Change means Consequences If we stop the war in Iraq, what will happen next? If we fight global warming by reducing the greenhouse gases we emit, will other energy sources fill the gap? ECT. 3. Anyone the current system works for will always try to remain Status Quo. Q: Why doesn't anyone raise taxes for the rich to lessen the gap between the rich and the poor? A: Because the leader of our country let them keep more money. Q: Why doesn't anyone make cigarettes illegal? A: Because that would mean they would go out of business. Most people concentrate solely on their job or some stupid hobby rather then the world around them. We should open up our society so that people get to experience more. Then when people are forced to experience some new outside intrusion, they never know how to deal with it because they might make a wrong decision. Finally, when tough decisions come, the one that could speak up and make a change that could be considered radical tends to be indecisive about it. Anyone offering money generally has a powerful voice about the matter. The ones with money are doing fine as things are. People need to be less timid, be more active and aware, and not be so easily controlled by the dollar. I pretty much hate our society because of this, and I can't really see a solution without some sort of force being used.

In my opinion, there are three main reasons for the apathy.
1. Most people don't care because it's never present in their lives.
People dieing in Darfur: We have nothing to do with Darfur, most people had no idea it existed until people started killing each other. Now we just go, "Oh thats bad, somebody should do something."
Overfishing: The only time most people ever see fish is when its at the store, people will start caring when the fish is gone in the store.
ECT.
2. Change means Consequences
If we stop the war in Iraq, what will happen next?
If we fight global warming by reducing the greenhouse gases we emit, will other energy sources fill the gap?
ECT.
3. Anyone the current system works for will always try to remain Status Quo.
Q: Why doesn't anyone raise taxes for the rich to lessen the gap between the rich and the poor?
A: Because the leader of our country let them keep more money.
Q: Why doesn't anyone make cigarettes illegal?
A: Because that would mean they would go out of business.

Most people concentrate solely on their job or some stupid hobby rather then the world around them. We should open up our society so that people get to experience more. Then when people are forced to experience some new outside intrusion, they never know how to deal with it because they might make a wrong decision. Finally, when tough decisions come, the one that could speak up and make a change that could be considered radical tends to be indecisive about it. Anyone offering money generally has a powerful voice about the matter. The ones with money are doing fine as things are.

People need to be less timid, be more active and aware, and not be so easily controlled by the dollar.
I pretty much hate our society because of this, and I can't really see a solution without some sort of force being used.

People tend to pursue their goals in the easiest way available, and generally that does not include breaking or changing laws, meaning relatively few people need to care about government to reach their goals.

People tend to pursue their goals in the easiest way available, and generally that does not include breaking or changing laws, meaning relatively few people need to care about government to reach their goals.

Rantent, much of what you say is true. My family stopped eating many types of fish because of overfishing though. You know why? Because we know the problem exists. If the media would just start being whistle blowers and muck-rakers again, we would have so many more people crying for change. [QUOTE]Change means Consequences If we stop the war in Iraq, what will happen next? If we fight global warming by reducing the greenhouse gases we emit, will other energy sources fill the gap?[/QUOTE]Consequences are not always bad, and in these cases, they are worthwhile, of course we'll still need work in millions of areas, but we can never expect to have complete inertia. The solution to global warming isn't just switching resources, it's using less. Houses can be fully heated, cooled and lighted if made correctly with the only power source being a solar panel. Good-bye coal consumption. An efficient society with a diverse energy resource consumption will work great to reach sustainability. [QUOTE]People need to be less timid, be more active and aware, and not be so easily controlled by the dollar. I pretty much hate our society because of this, and I can't really see a solution without some sort of force being used.[/QUOTE]Oh God, tell me about it..

Rantent, much of what you say is true. My family stopped eating many types of fish because of overfishing though. You know why? Because we know the problem exists. If the media would just start being whistle blowers and muck-rakers again, we would have so many more people crying for change.

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Change means Consequences
If we stop the war in Iraq, what will happen next?
If we fight global warming by reducing the greenhouse gases we emit, will other energy sources fill the gap?

Consequences are not always bad, and in these cases, they are worthwhile, of course we'll still need work in millions of areas, but we can never expect to have complete inertia. The solution to global warming isn't just switching resources, it's using less. Houses can be fully heated, cooled and lighted if made correctly with the only power source being a solar panel. Good-bye coal consumption. An efficient society with a diverse energy resource consumption will work great to reach sustainability.

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People need to be less timid, be more active and aware, and not be so easily controlled by the dollar.
I pretty much hate our society because of this, and I can't really see a solution without some sort of force being used.

Oh God, tell me about it..

In a world where money breaks or makes a person (I'm pretty sure hermits pay taxes), apathy isn't leaving. You care about yourself, your family, your distant relatives more then someplace half a world away. It doesn't help that the media isn't spreading any of this around - hell, the first time I heard of Darfur was when I happened to see an 'ad' about it in the subway quite a while after the problems started. Honestly, I think that the main contributors to stopping problems should be governments. This system perfectly coincides with capitalism, as all it requires is something we pay already (Do you know how much money we'd make if every person in America paid just one dollar? Hundreds of millions.). Increase all taxes by a flat rate of one dollar per month, that's 12 dollars every year. 12 x [URL=https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/print/us.html]301,139,947[/URL] people is more then 3.6 billion per year, in addition to what is currently used for such efforts, to help the world. Those who want to sacrifice whatever they're sacrificing for these changes continue - but really demanding that people actively help isn't fair. People have their own problems, and even if they're not as large as those of others, they have no obligation to help. Not to say they shouldn't, but...

In a world where money breaks or makes a person (I'm pretty sure hermits pay taxes), apathy isn't leaving. You care about yourself, your family, your distant relatives more then someplace half a world away. It doesn't help that the media isn't spreading any of this around - hell, the first time I heard of Darfur was when I happened to see an 'ad' about it in the subway quite a while after the problems started.

Honestly, I think that the main contributors to stopping problems should be governments. This system perfectly coincides with capitalism, as all it requires is something we pay already (Do you know how much money we'd make if every person in America paid just one dollar? Hundreds of millions.). Increase all taxes by a flat rate of one dollar per month, that's 12 dollars every year. 12 x 301,139,947 people is more then 3.6 billion per year, in addition to what is currently used for such efforts, to help the world.

Those who want to sacrifice whatever they're sacrificing for these changes continue - but really demanding that people actively help isn't fair. People have their own problems, and even if they're not as large as those of others, they have no obligation to help. Not to say they shouldn't, but...

You can't demand that people protest in asinine ways, by not paying taxes. You can't even demand that people protest at all. I think the world should form some kind of military coalition to stop terror and oppression and whatever racial killing or genocidal bullshit that happens. The world can be very useful when it works together toward a common goal.

You can't demand that people protest in asinine ways, by not paying taxes. You can't even demand that people protest at all. I think the world should form some kind of military coalition to stop terror and oppression and whatever racial killing or genocidal bullshit that happens. The world can be very useful when it works together toward a common goal.

[quote]You can't demand that people protest in asinine ways, by not paying taxes. You can't even demand that people protest at all. I think the world should form some kind of military coalition to stop terror and oppression and whatever racial killing or genocidal bullshit that happens. The world can be very useful when it works together toward a common goal.[/quote] Add UN a big millitary and an actual law over other countries. Bash everyone who does not obey.

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You can't demand that people protest in asinine ways, by not paying taxes. You can't even demand that people protest at all. I think the world should form some kind of military coalition to stop terror and oppression and whatever racial killing or genocidal bullshit that happens. The world can be very useful when it works together toward a common goal.

Add UN a big millitary and an actual law over other countries. Bash everyone who does not obey.

I was talking about individuals. Bash governments into helping, I don't mind that. If a whole government has serious financial issues, let someone else take over. And since no government would do that, we're perfectly justified in forcing them to pay.

I was talking about individuals. Bash governments into helping, I don't mind that. If a whole government has serious financial issues, let someone else take over. And since no government would do that, we're perfectly justified in forcing them to pay.

[quote=BeDazed][quote]You can't demand that people protest in asinine ways, by not paying taxes. You can't even demand that people protest at all. I think the world should form some kind of military coalition to stop terror and oppression and whatever racial killing or genocidal bullshit that happens. The world can be very useful when it works together toward a common goal.[/quote] Add UN a big millitary and an actual law over other countries. Bash everyone who does not obey.[/quote] If you noticed I said, I 'think,' which means it could be a controversial issue. It would be a very big move, but think about Darfur, Iraq, Iran, North Korea, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Sudan, and all the other countries that are suffering.

Quote from BeDazed

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You can't demand that people protest in asinine ways, by not paying taxes. You can't even demand that people protest at all. I think the world should form some kind of military coalition to stop terror and oppression and whatever racial killing or genocidal bullshit that happens. The world can be very useful when it works together toward a common goal.

Add UN a big millitary and an actual law over other countries. Bash everyone who does not obey.

If you noticed I said, I 'think,' which means it could be a controversial issue. It would be a very big move, but think about Darfur, Iraq, Iran, North Korea, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Sudan, and all the other countries that are suffering.