Both are against the ToS. Both help mapping and hurt no one. Both are accepted to be good by everyone except Blizzard. Only one of them is endorsed by SEN.

We're not discussing whether you are supposed to be able to do something with the beta, we're discussing whether it's legal to crack the free beta.

Since I assume beta members have to click "I accept" in a ToS, no, it's not.

You don't have to for the beta + crack, and the ToS isn't legally binding as far as I know.

Lol. I'm pretty sure saying "This song didn't throw up a warning saying "THIS IS ILLEGAL" when I downloaded it along with ten thousand others" isn't a valid legal argument for piracy. The same here.

What I'm saying is that the beta is given to people for free. Music is different, as it costs money legally.

A gift of an iPod is free to the receiver. Nevertheless, stealing an iPod is a nono.

But the beta is entirely free. If all iPods were free, would it be illegal to open one up and take out the battery?

Actually, not even close. He would find out why he is mad and settle the problem. Not say "Fuck You, See-ya later." That is being so childish it's not even funny. I would never follow, ( nor America(SEN)) someone who is so short-circuited and one-sided to thinking.

On another topic though.

Ya we are sort of behind, but the SC II beta isn't going to make a difference if we don't have a map editor, or a beta crack to it. (lol)
Once it comes out we can hammer on some Guides, Tips, Wiki's, etc. I even plan on trying to make a few guides to help out the community once I get the game. If everyone contributes to this stuff ( which I guarantee they will ) SEN will still be the best.
And yes. I may not have written any guides yet, but that's because they've all been written already. Most at least.

And for the record. When people who aren't grown-up try and act very mature, they really just can't do it very well. At all.

http://cgi.ebay.com/BlizzCon-2008-Card-FREE-Starcraft-2-Beta-Key-/280495456748?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item414ed501ec#ht_500wt_1182

People are selling free betas for an awful lot. Okay, I think I proved my point, let's not derail this further.

Aside from the fact that zeeg blatantly allows his moderators to abuse their power with no repercussions, I had no problem. My outrage was at the fact that zeeg was pushing his site as such a good place to be and yet no one is held accountable for their actions. As the severity system and our team of moderators will attest, we hold people to their words and actions here.

I promise you Merrell and I have never given you or az anything you didn't deserve in full.

My problems with nibbits runs far deeper than some petty grudge you seem to perceive.

Trying to weasel your way out with this language doesn't help, ex.
There's no need to belittle me, or my language. I'm capable of better writing, it's just I feel there's no need for it here.

I also don't see how we deserved certain treatments we recieved... which is again why all this fuss was brought up.

What you and merrell both ultimately fail at is the inability to admit that you were being oversensitive and way too aggressive with your moderation. And as an excuse, you both use this type of floaty, flamboyant language to make us sound immature.

Oooh UnholyUrine said fuck you to me... gonna have to ban him now. (btw merrell, u didn't even see me say "I forgot to turn off my bot's greet. If you ask me politely, I'll take the bot away" as you were trying to ban me, which is why i said "fuck you")

Oooh Azala took out my diplomacy map.. i hate this site now. EDIT: not to mention az put it back up in minutes.
WOW. .SOOO MATURE, MAN!. ANYONE'd look up to YOU, Ex. You're my IDOL of Excellence!
I would've kicked you off of mod for your behaviour years ago. Both of you. and Yes, I'm directly stating I'm making enemies with you. What are you going to do?

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Apr 20 2010, 7:46 am by Excalibur. Reason: Flame removed.

Weasel my way out? The situation you're trying to discuss does not exist. I have no grudge with you or az, I have a problem with what zeeg allows to go on at his site. Why are you taking it so personal when I'm criticizing their site and their staff? They can surely speak for themselves.

If you'd like to PM me about some specific moderation actions I'd be happy to go over them with you.

I cut this line off here because I'm going to have to edit your post for that last remark as it is way out of line, but I've done no such thing. Simply because we put effort into what we are presenting to our peers does not mean we're doing it to get you or some ludicrous idea like that. Honestly, you think we word things nicely to make you look bad? Are you serious?

Would I have more respect for you if you put more effort into your posts? Absolutely. But that's up to you, this is how you're presenting to yourself to those around you. Taking issue with me because I care about what I am presenting whereas you don't is nonsensical to the point of confusing. I cannot in any logical way see how you're coming to these conclusions.

He abused his moderation powers, there is nothing to take lightly about that. What bothered me even more was that zeeg allowed this and as far as I know, did not so much as say a word to az. You cannot truthfully tell me that that is a proper reaction for a good administrator. When one of us does something wrong, Moose is sure to have a word with us, if not our fellow staff. Moderators are not perfect, but allowing their mistakes with no discussion or repercussions is idiocy.

That is my opinion, you don't have to like it.

What am I going to do? Making enemies? Are you serious? What are we 10 on the playground and you just kicked over my sandcastle? Honestly man, get real.

Unholy I'm really not sure what you perceive as my opinion of you, or if you're truly conceited enough to think I go around plotting how to get you or some ridiculous thing like that. This is not about you, me, Merrel, az, or zeeg in particular. This topic is about nibbits, my response was about nibbits as a whole and what I think of the conduct they allow at their site. If you could try and stay on topic from here on out, that'd be lovely.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Apr 20 2010, 8:04 am by Excalibur.

Yes, a very funny link, but the thing you're getting wrong here is that we're trying to make SEN not suck and your response is "oh well go to another SCII site that doesn't suck". We're pointing out the flaws to help improve. Although if your solution is to continue to let moderators suck and to continue let SEN go down the path it's going, then maybe we will all take your advice and find another site (not to speak for everybody, but I know I will).

It is very humorous that you respond to posts criticizing the way SEN operates by telling people to go find another site. Get real, and improve the way SEN works based on people's opinions.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Apr 20 2010, 9:05 am by Leeroy_Jenkins.

I understand and I can admit that I should not be speaking like that. However, please understand that the staff I have invested a lot of time and effort into this place and we do not like being told what essentially means that we are not trying. Perhaps this is not necessarily applicable to me because I will be leaving, but it is certainly not fair to the rest of the staff. A simple "SEN sucks" with nothing else does not help anyone and I was responding specifically and directly to that post and related deleted posts; All constructive criticism is very much appreciated.

Post has been edited 3 time(s), last time on Apr 20 2010, 2:05 pm by Mini Moose 2707.

Side note: removed link until this is clarified.

I was never very active at Maplantis, but didn't they have an unwritten "If you piss us off, you're gone" rule? I've heard nothing but praise for how Maplantis was run, and ultimately weeded out people they didn't like just because they didn't feel like having them there.

My point in bringing this up is that our Staff forum acts as a sort of "checks-and-balances" for SEN Moderators. Despite what some people may think are personal grudges, every major moderation involving suspensions, bans, and the like is discussed there. People cannot just get banned here for pissing us off, despite personal "enemies" and conflicts. If that were the case, I imagine SEN would be a lot smaller in size. Instead, a PM like Gigin's is brought up, discussed, and acted upon.

Despite what it may seem like, our Staff members are on a team, and our unified goal is to make SEN better. In this case, we think a SC2 crack-less SEN is better. That in no way inhibits SC2 discussion, project planning, and the like. Like I've said before, this is solely because of our no-crack policy and has nothing to do with SC2 itself.

Gigins net contribution is positive. He's suspended. Checks and balances failed. Unless you consider a moderator's job to be something other than 'using the tools at your disposal for the best for SEN' and blindly follow rules. An insult to one moderator, where he alone is affected, led to us losing Gigins, and that in turn affected our already paltry SCII-force.

You weren't apart of the checks and balances. It isn't up to you and you alone to determine whether or not someone should stay or be reprimanded.


This is very true. It's one of the main reasons I stick around at SEN, and plan to stick around for quite a while.

True, I've read the entire staff forum when I received access and they do not suspend/ban anyone without a huge discussion.