What you have presented is nothing new: Landing your spells to kill an enemy hero and gain exp is nothing new. All you are adding is a system, which doesnt serve any true purpose, that gives you bonuses for landing spells. A Leveling spell system that is based on external factors such as say, the enemy player dodging my spells, is not consistent. Just make it as straight foward as possible because honestly, this is vague and not direct.


TS is PvP from the outset when you are rushing to for the base grabs, TS is already heavily PvP. Your system also encourages bad play. Your system can be done away with in favor of something more direct and easy. If you want to make an assist function for making a hero kill, do so. However don't make upgrading spells synonmous with casting them and landing its just dumb. Another thing is that, again there will always be gaps because some spells are easier to land than others. Basically you want people to get exp for doing bad, because I'm smacking my lane so the other guy deserves to get exp for it? Call for a tag out.

If I wouldn't choose the normal method, which gives better exp, safer, and more consistent. Then why would i go running around, which delays exp, trying to cast random spells that might not hit, further delaying more exp, and letting my lane opponent freefarm widening the experience gap. Your system adds nothing, but gives pubstars the pipe dream of a shitty alternative and "More involved PvP experience"


Using spells correctly? So this is not a vague statement in the least? The reward for using spells correctly is landing them, and gaining the desired effect. It should be as simple as that. Again as I stated above this system does nothing or serves no purpose. And encourages bad play.


It could be done with your system but then again, It works withoutout of your system. We don't need your system implemented to change anything.

Let spending minerals or whatever e.t.c determine the spell damage not this vague nonsene. Direct, easy, and fast. Also doesnt encourage pubs running around "LULZ IM UPGRADING MAH SPELLS!!?!". Mindless roaming around was already a problem in original TS pub play, why reinforce it even more?


Yes give the guy whos untouchable at night the power to be untouchable by day. Great balance.


Ok


Keep the leveling system the same, keep it simple. At the very least not this system.


Not Sarcastic just confident.

Post has been edited 3 time(s), last time on Feb 27 2011, 6:04 am by DoLLe.

You keep saying that the system has no purpose- it allows PvP players to get exp for PvPing. Just because a hero is a PvPer, does not mean they can just kill whomever they want. If they other team cannon-hugs or plays cautiously and out grinds the lane, then what is there for the PvPer? You say to swap lanes, but that's not always a viable option- and how many people can stop a hero like LM from grinding? You can't necessarily kill him either since he can cannon-hug while splash farming.

"A Leveling spell system that is based on external factors such as say, the enemy player dodging my spells, is not consistent. Just make it as straight foward as possible because honestly, this is vague and not direct."
It based on the inverse, your ability to landing spells. While it is somewhat related to the enemy dodging spells, aren't all forms of gaining exp the same way? You gain exp for grinding, however your enemy can steal all the grind. You gain exp for killing your enemy, however your enemy can dodge spells. You gain exp for capping bases, yet the enemy team caps the base. Nothing is completely consistent, yet this system is more consistent than not getting any exp for attempting to kill/harass and landing spells, wheras doing nothing nets you the same amount of exp.

"Your system can be done away with in favor of something more direct and easy. If you want to make an assist function for making a hero kill, do so."
What is more direct than: Land spells = profit? That's as direct as you can get- immediate results.
This is a way for an assist function, among many others things it is as well.

"Basically you want people to get exp for doing bad, because I'm smacking my lane so the other guy deserves to get exp for it?"
No, you don't get exp for doing bad- you are put into a bad situation, but through your efforts, you can at least lessen how bad it is.

"If I wouldn't choose the normal method, which gives better exp, safer, and more consistent. Then why would i go running around, which delays exp, trying to cast random spells that might not hit, further delaying more exp, and letting my lane opponent freefarm widening the experience gap."
As I have stated, you would probably want to choose the normal method. However, if you can't, you can still harass or try to PK and get some exp for it. You aren't running around randomly casting spells, are you cutting off words from my sentences? (No offense) "If a player is stealing all the lane's spawns, then sometimes you can only harass- so you might as well get some exp for it, but you probably wouldn't choose this over normal grinding." It's also a benefit to landing spells overall.

"Using spells correctly? So this is not a vague statement in the least?"
Not if you don't know the correct usage of the spells. I'm not listing how each spell is suppose to be used, nor all the ways they can be used.

"Yes give the guy whos untouchable at night the power to be untouchable by day. Great balance."
A lot more is being changed than one spell. It's not as if we are going to place a 9999rine in the game and call it balanced. It's not as if we can't place methods of detection in the game as well.

"The reward for using spells correctly is landing them, and gaining the desired effect. It should be as simple as that. Again as I stated above this system does nothing or serves no purpose. And encourages bad play."
You can also say the same thing about everything else. Your reward for killing an enemy hero is deducting one of their lives. Your reward for capping a base is you get an outpost, teleporter, and sim spots. Your reward for killing gates are so that enemy troops don't spawn. It should be as simple as that. Yet you get exp for all those things. Why is is so bad that you get a bit extra spell exp for landing spells? It's not a substitute for grinding.

"Your system adds nothing, but gives pubstars the pipe dream of a shitty alternative and "More involved PvP experience""
You seem very focused on how my system is for major pubstarring. It really doesn't have much relevance in my purposal. If you are looking to find how my system is a pubstar magnet, you will find a reason, just as you can anything else. Killing the temple is how you win, but you don't see pubstars running in to kill it, and dying- but I could say that having the temple killed to win the game will cause "LULZ IM KILLING THE TEMPLE MAH SPELLS!!?!" and will kamikaze themselves. Just as players won't fore-go grinding to land spells, because it just isn't beneficial enough to grinding. We are talking about competent players here.

If a player has a lead in exp, from early kills/feed/quick mass grinding, it takes him more exp to raise a level than a lower level player. Therefore, it is less beneficial for the higher player to grind. That player could then choose to stop grinding for a while to PvP, which could land him a kill— but if not, he at least did some harassing and leveling up his spell slightly.

"It could be done with your system but then again, It works without of your system. We don't need your system implemented to change anything."
Think forward. We are thinking about implementing spell expansions, passive spells, morale systems, some items, new heroes, and so much more. TS was TS without those, they don't need to be implemented to make a good game— but they can make for a better game. If anything were bad, it could easily be tweaked or removed. I never stated that my ideas would be ultimate and permanent, I stated my thoughts on how they could work and what they have to offer. Aside from just scrapping my ideas because I hear some criticism, I'm here to help make a good game, and would rather have more input or concrete proof rather than it just trashing it.

u guys are going to need to calm down

the game hasn't even been made yet

I'm calm. I just just like debating sometimes, and I'm not doing much but just drawing anyway.

Last time I'm addressing this, it has no purpose. Everyone in the game is a PvP player, there are no exceptions you cannot win without some PvP interaction. Every hero has the potential to kill some heroes and others not, I believe they call the concept: counters. What is left for the PvPer? Call for a tag out. It is viable to tag out, you are talking to one of the best not some scrub.

Stop LM from grinding? Thats easy, spawn manipulation make him miss spawn or waste time changing lanes. Since LM is on the opposing team generally means you won a free cap 99% of the time that means sims and sims outside. Next thing you know you will "LM is op'd"


Again a useless function, if someone is doing bad they are doing bad. If someone is dominating through skill or a nice counter pick, don't reward the person whos doing poorly. Call for a lane switch and tag out, even more viable now that its 4v4.


If the average pub is getting spanked in his lane and he figures he can get some, unreliable EXP, for randomly running around the map trying to hit people spells he will do so. This encourages bad behaviors. Someone like mutant gets shut down in his lane bigtime, how the hell is he going to harass Volt, SpecOps, Assault, DM, or Archer? He can't and will most likely suicide/near death into these guys for some lousy exp. Mutant can't harass effectively, Summoner harass who?, Warrior cannot harass without taking colateral or taking a risk, Sin can't without night, Assault generally doesn't harass he stuns to death and other subtlies among heroes. Some heroes can abuse this system to death, Archer, Volt, SpecOps to name a few.

Cut the BS system out, it doesn't work in the grand scheme of things and will encourage trash players to do trash things all for little benefit for a system that does little of nothing to begin with.


Bingo. Thats my point, there are so many "correct" and "hidden" ways to use spells that it's vague statement. Next.

"Yes give the guy whos untouchable at night the power to be untouchable by day. Great balance."
A lot more is being changed than one spell. It's not as if we are going to place a 9999rine in the game and call it balanced. It's not as if we can't place methods of detection in the game as well.



You have said the following:

"Also, landing spells on heroes could give more exp than grinding, further encouraging player attack, rather than grinding"
"Grinding will still give more points, and enemy heroes are..."
"What isn't clear about it? I have stated that it was to cater to another style of play more involved in PvP"
"Why is is so bad that you get a bit extra spell exp for landing spells? It's not a substitute for grinding."

You seem all over the map about this system. In my general experience in these types of things if you keep switching up what you mean or have to re-clarify its generally not a solid concept/idea in the first place. Anyways, those actions you listed that get a reward require concentrated efforts and generally lead to something better overall for the team. Casting spells that land should be the reward, you don't need exp for something you should be doing on a regular basis each second in the match.


No it just this specific system will encourage pubstars to dumb things, I haven't seen pubstars suicide into temples because the cannons are there. However I've seen pubstars wander the map aimlessly trying to kill things.

No. Because not all heroes have to leave the lane. Assault can still grind lane and use bomber to "level up" his spells Effectively doing 2x training at once. Same with DM. SpecOps with satellite. While ling is struggling to land L2 and barely laning, he wont land L2 btw, remember competent players? This system is unbalanced.



-Spell expansions: Ya my idea that I advocated
-Morale systems: There is a reason nobody played the verison with the morale system
-Items: I Said consumables, at a cooldown worth a day and some armor, but also only one item slot per hero.
-TS was TS without those and it was great.

Rest I agree with.


Best to remove trash before it stinks.

"Last time I'm addressing this, it has no purpose... ...there are no exceptions you cannot win without some PvP interaction."
You aren't rewarded for many of those PvP interactions though- other than immediate effects, generally not permanent effects.

"Everyone in the game is a PvP player"
Obviously. I was referring to heroes more on the PvP end, like DM and Sin.

"What is left for the PvPer? Call for a tag out. It is viable to tag out"
Not always. Such as if you are countered by all three (four) foes. Or someone stalks you to take all your feed.

"Stop LM from grinding? Thats easy, spawn manipulation make him miss spawn or waste time changing lanes. Since LM is on the opposing team generally means you won a free cap 99% of the time that means sims and sims outside."
Then end up feeding the other players on his team 2x. Also, his teammates could easily be adept sim killers.

"Again a useless function, if someone is doing bad they are doing bad. If someone is dominating through skill or a nice counter pick, don't reward the person whos doing poorly."
If someone is losing, you give then a chance to ge back if they have tried hard enough. It doesn't necessarily have to be an easy chance at getting back either, but it makes things interesting. It's not rewarding bad play.

"If the average pub is getting spanked in his lane and he figures he can get some, unreliable EXP, for randomly running around the map trying to hit people spells he will do so. This encourages bad behaviors."
It's not a substitute for grinding, but if that player can't grind, then else should he do? It would be better that the player harass and slow the other player from exping or try to kill the enemy hero, rather than sit somewhere. How is this a bad behavior? I've stated before that players wouldn't roam around casting spells if they could grind and need exp.


"Someone like mutant gets shut down in his lane bigtime, how the hell is he going to harass Volt, SpecOps, Assault, DM, or Archer? He can't and will most likely suicide/near death into these guys for some lousy exp. Mutant can't harass effectively, Summoner harass who?, Warrior cannot harass without taking colateral or taking a risk, Sin can't without night, Assault generally doesn't harass he stuns to death and other subtlies among heroes."
"No it just this specific system will encourage pubstars to dumb things, I haven't seen pubstars suicide into temples because the cannons are there. However I've seen pubstars wander the map aimlessly trying to kill things."
Those are character specific. Mutant is not a harasser, but a PKer- and the system would still help him. You said he's getting shutdown from grinding anyway (assuming he couldn't grind other lanes, AND assuming he can't grind behind enemy bases, or else he should be doing that) He could get exp for attempting kills. Throwing out a sloppy L2 that barely hits or doesn't hit will give negligable to no exp, while an L2 that nearly kills them gives them some fair exp to reward them for landing a good L2, and more so for a kill. The L2 kill fit's mutant player's playstyle, and part of the exp goes into L2 dmg, while he could still choose where most of the rest goes to. Alternatively, the pub dies to an enemy hero for stupid actions. Well pubs do stupid actions such as going rambo in the first place. Lesson learned- don't charge into them again; or perhaps they learned how to more effectively harass. If the pub didn't learn, then the problem lies with the player that couldn't learn from the original TS anyway. Warrior is similiar to mutant in that he could get attempted kill exp, although warrior doesn't generally have a problem grinding. Sin couldn't harass at day to begin with, is there any loss here? Assault could get exp for his stun chain combos, he's probably trying to kill- if not, then he's either assisting or harassing, which still gets him stun lvl exp.

"Some heroes can abuse this system to death, Archer, Volt, SpecOps to name a few."
For players that could easily land spells/grind with their spells, it could easily be adjusted so that they get much less exp than they would for landing a much harder spell.

"Bingo. Thats my point, there are so many "correct" and "hidden" ways to use spells that it's vague statement. Next."
And I was referring to just about all of them. It my examples I gave plently of different ways you could get exp for using a spell.

"Also, landing spells on heroes could give more exp than grinding, further encouraging player attack, rather than grinding"
"Grinding will still give more points, and enemy heroes are..."
I believe I redressed these earlier:
"I should have said, more exp than grinding for a particular spell you are working on. Grinding will still give more overall exp for all spells in general. If you want to go hard on stuns, you use them as much as you can— however, they still won't be weak if you didn't want spam them. This is only to emphasize play style, just as your mana regen rate skyrockets when you go pure mana, or you get +6% hp instead of +4% after some hp ups. It's not that much of an advantage for stuns to go just stun, but it's still a slight. It's enough to let you PvP if you want to, but not enough for you to go out of your way to do it— you won't be roaming the map to randomly cast spells on heroes, unless if it was your intent to kill them anyway.

"What isn't clear about it? I have stated that it was to cater to another style of play more involved in PvP"
"Why is is so bad that you get a bit extra spell exp for landing spells? It's not a substitute for grinding."
It's not a substitute, it's an alternative- which is different. "Grinding will still give more overall exp for all spells in general." landing spells will give more exp "than grinding for a particular spell you are working on."

"Anyways, those actions you listed that get a reward require concentrated efforts and generally lead to something better overall for the team. Casting spells that land should be the reward, you don't need exp for something you should be doing on a regular basis each second in the match."
Killing enemy players benefits the team, and you can't kill without attempting to kill. Assisting with killing/spells helps the team. Harassing and enemy to slow his grinding helps the team. Grinding for the most part, only benefits individuals. Killing the spawns should be the reward, you don't need exp for something you should be doing on a regular basis each second in the match. It doesn't sound so good if you phrase it that way either. You should be killing heroes, you should be killing buildings, etc.. you still get exp for those. Why do you get exp for doing some actions but not other? It's mostly spell specific exp as well for using the spell.

"No. Because not all heroes have to leave the lane. Assault can still grind lane and use bomber to "level up" his spells Effectively doing 2x training at once. Same with DM. SpecOps with satellite. While ling is struggling to land L2 and barely laning, he wont land L2 btw, remember competent players? This system is unbalanced."
That's fine. Assault has to still land his bombs. Players don't just let themselves get bombed on- if he does, then lvl ups for bomber. I thought you said assault doesn't generally harass, he just stuns to death, meaning he would be killing or assisting. The system could be made so stunning with the bomber would give more exp for following up with an attack, rather than just for 2x exping as well. Same goes with the other heroes, using those spells to attack, or perhaps when a foe is low on hp will give more exp than harassing. Even so, those players are using their spells, which also lvls them up slightly faster. It's not as if the amount of exp you do get from using it, would change the way you play too much, just allow it to grow. It's seems natural that the more you use an ability, the stronger it gets.

"-Spell expansions: Ya my idea that I advocated"
This is a separate tangent to this debate. Others had the idea before you as well.

"-Morale systems: There is a reason nobody played the verison with the morale system"
And it had nothing to do with the morale system. The map was never finished and that was the reason why.

-Items: I Said consumables, at a cooldown worth a day and some armor, but also only one item slot per hero."
I said what we were thinking about implementing.

"Best to remove trash before it stinks."
Best to remove your attitude before it stinks.

Well this topic seems to be derailing.

Okay, first things first. You are just adding unnecessary bonuses that add nothing whatsoever in order to make things more complicated.

It's a system that is being counter-productive to good play. A player should be conservative and know when and where to take appropriate action. Instead this system increases bad play.

You're creating an entire system based on nothing. Being good and able to land your spells is an advantage in itself why does it need bonuses on top of that? Same for harassment. Why do you think that being able to land your spells and harassment isn't reward enough itself? In actuality this system just gives bad players an excuse for being bad. First realize you're reasoning isn't how the game worked at all. Playing defensively and being behind for that moment in the game in order to gain something more later on is a strong part of how things worked.



Okay I'm not going to go too hard into specifics because this is only leading further and further down into a hole

Two separate teams, one average vs one pro team. Now obviously the pro team will have better picks and setups while the average team will have a very sloppy setup, possibly to a point of the game where they become so behind that all 3 of their lanes cannot farm. Is this fair? Yes, the more experienced team should always stay ahead, it's called balance. If you are the average team you SHOULD be punished for not being as skillful as the other team. NOT getting bonuses because you think it's luck that the other team just happen to cut off your farm. I'm not saying that's strictly what your system incorporates, just going against your reasoning.



Harassing the other player and stopping him farm IS the reward. I hope you aren't talking about fail-ganks. A player should never be rewarded because they are worse than the other players.



If you are countered by the other team, you are worse than them and therefore should lose. That is balance.



?

Common sense. They are supposed to do that anyway.. it's already a reward in itself.

Why would you ever want to reward for near killings. If the other player is better than you and escapes you, YOU shouldn't be given a reward. Rewarding bad play and giving bonuses for being worse than other players.

Hey guys, just got internet again (well, I moved and fios coming wednesday)!

So I made my own draft version of TS this last week. I'm on the NA server with the name Owls and char. code 765 if you want to test. Here's what I did:


Changed the assim system. I've allowed people to build different structures for different benefits. It's still probe for minerals, but now people can buy scvs to make refs for spawn buffs and drones to make extractors for xp bonuses. Hopefully this will give players more strategic options and get them away from the lanes more.

Items. Heroes can carry just one consumable item. I haven't finished this, but they'll be expensive so a player who gets these will lack upgrades in the long run. A short run vs long run type decision.

Warps. Players can warp between bases they've capped. I've added two new ones. I think this will encourage more team play because it'll be easier to gank and help the pressured ones.

Areas. Those two new bases (towers between the others) give teams control over a area of invinicible lurkers and a area of invinicible point defense drones. It

Changed the spell system.
-I've given each hero two paths, a spell path and a buff path. Also, every hero has one base spell (I tried to keep it close to melee spells) that they have to upgrade before they get any others.
-Each individual spell on either path can be upgraded twice for a different effect (with points from xp), as well as with the normal damage upgrades (with minerals from assims). Now people will have to focus on specialization in a certain spell, rushing for high level spells, or generalizing to create combos.
-Base spell costs 1 point which everyone starts with (so either that or hp/mins/mana), lvl 2 costs 2 points, lvl 3 costs 3 points, lvl 4 costs 4 points, and each spell upgrade costs 2 points.

Switched up the heroes. Spells listed below:



Anyway, there's a lot left to do. Terrain and UI look horrible, and need to finish up the hero functionality. Also need to get the items working and start making the creeps and creep buffs/upgrades.

I read your arguments on the last few pages and I think the best way to decide is to make more versions and try them all. It doesn't take more than a few weeks to do, and we can merge the forks after we see what we like from each version.

I think Fashioned is right. If someone gets the advantage in one area of the game, it's not as fun to take away that advantage by default. It's better to give the disadvantaged player more options that they can take to get back in the game. I understand wanting a different area for the disadvantaged player to approach, but using spells happens in any case when you're laning. The only difference that makes is the laning advantage is lessened.

For example, the lm in sc1 ts was really good at laning, and not many heroes could even compete. But the disadvantage is the slow speed that allows the opponent to map sim. I think TS got it right with the balance between laning and simming (and spawn!), and we should add new areas to take advantage of instead of removing old ones.

*Sorry for the double post.

Wait, What??
You and I are going to need to talk


LIIIESSS!!

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Feb 27 2011, 8:19 pm by UnholyUrine.

@Devilin: Sorry I will tone it down, I want this to be a civil discourse not Me vs the world. I apologize.

I'm finally glad you delved into gameplay, it shows your lack of understanding and knowledge of the TS metagame. There are some glaring flaws in your system that will be addressed in this post. You are intelligent, but I am afraid you are not "TS intelligent" however.


Joke statement. Suppressing/Harassing/Killing another hero is the reward in itself, you shouldnt get anymore bonuses besides this. Delaying someones farm is permanent, applying pressure is permanent, denying farm is permanent, killing the other hero permanent. Your system does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

Wait, it does, it creates an imbalance for heroes who can harass well or be in two places, a la assault, at one the others are screwed to the scraps. It also gives pubstars an excuse to do pubstar actions, Fashioned has mentioned this as well.


We're talking competant players remember, I will give it to splasher on my team, or the the enermy who cannot handle the mass influx of spawn.

Adept sim killers you say? Lets see here Archer (One of the best), Assault(Slow but guaranteed to die through continued efforts), Sin (One of the best), Summoner (Probs the best, but slow to do so).

So let me ask you this question when is the last time you've seen LM,Archer, and Sin? Probably in some random pub much because its a shitty team. You gave away two caps for free just off the picks alone. Archer granted, can definitely hold his own but with the lost caps from LM and Sin, the other two teamates are will rape free to rape archer. If you throw in assault hes STRICTLY average at the VERY best in terms of capping so hes not guaranteed to cap anything either. If you say summoner then I am just going to lol.

The point is if the LM has adept "Sim killer(s)" You are losing map control from the start of game to bank LM becoming unbeatable. Yea, LM unbeatable yea see the oxy moron? Anyone with two or more caps is going to secure the outside sims as well, suprisingly even pubs have caught on to this tactic of building sims outside the caps to bolster the advantage even more. Your response was a typical pubstar response (No offense what so ever intended in saying this but it is truth).


Ah, your true colors are coming out and this is a good thing. I don't think you grasp the fundamentals of gameplay in TS. TS is built on making comebacks, its already inherently in the design. Examples being:
-Wally and company in the tournament coming back from the spawn cheese.
-Maxx, albeit trolling, proved he beat Faz-/Decency and friends multiple times 1v3.
-Myself and iceman16 in a tournament match when fdsa72 dropped still winning 2v3.
-In the 2nd tournament Maxx and Iceman didnt have a solid third, still continued on to win, despite going against three well established team memebers in the finals
-Twoja,tinypest and some random knowing they cant win through pure hero play used spawn to rape the tourney.

If you want to comeback use skill, not some pubstar handicap system to encourage bad play.


Ah, This is the your "gotcha" statement. Someone who picks poorly who is countered by all 3-4 (*COUGH* MUTANT/SPECOPS *COUGH*) is bad and is pubstar. Your system encourages bad play, why? Well you said it yourself below, lets see what you say.


The fact you said "Character specific" rings an alarm in my head, anyone with half a brain will counterpick ling all day to nullify him he may be on the low tier but once hes pumped hes a monster. You also say your system rewards people who are more PvP oriented by harassing. If mutant is shut out of his lane, what do you suppose he will do? I know, tell us Flashbeer :

He could get exp for attempting kills. Throwing out a sloppy L2 that barely hits or doesn't hit will give negligable to no exp, while an L2 that nearly kills them gives them some fair exp to reward them for landing a good L2, and more so for a kill.

Yes, encourage the mutant to L2 the: Volt with L2/DM with mael and curse/Warrior with 10atk plus a stun/Assault with bomber/SpecOps with sniper+satellite/Archer with L3/LM with L1+L2 or L1+L3 combo/Mech who can trans out of L2. Is this REALLY smart?

Bad examples, Warrior and Assualt have good hp and escape mechanisms ling does not.

You keep mentioning an attempt to use L2 to kill someone and your lack of understanding the gameplay mechanics of ling is glaring. L2 is used NOT as Attempt/harass move, as it is easily dodged. When you know you have a clear window to kill the opponent its used to kill them on the spot, 0 retaliation. The only other move like this is Sins L4. If you want to harass use L3, which isnt really viable. I find it odd you keep saying the mutant can use L2 as a harass tactic which clearly shows your fundamentals are weak.

So let me ask you this question again, your system doesnt encourage pubstar play and feeding?


Lowering the skill ceiling is always bad, catering to the "OMG LM AND LING ARE SO OP'D" Crowd negatively affects everyone else. Giving out free handicaps is NOT the way to go. I am also seeing a pattern here your system is designed to help those who build poorly designed teams or tactical errors in hero choices a.k.a pubstars.


Right, so pubs who rape with mutant will be rewarded, more encouraging of more bad habits. While a pub of a similar skill level struggling with a skillful hero like Assault doesn't get a reward "because its easier to land". I love the balance within your system.


Giving a reward for something you should be doing properly in the first place a reward is not bad? Fashioned already clarified what i said: Rewarding something for nothing encourages bad play. If you fail to kill someone you shouldnt be rewarded, especially if you die. The reward is LANDING the spell you shouldnt give bonuses for doing so. This will reinforce bad play. You have no idea, how many times in TS that pubs would wander aimlessly around trying to kill things. In fact ask the player Derelict, he would know. The fact i know all of them by name should tell you something. The next thing we need is this: "Lulz i died but i got exp for my L2 XD".

I'm wondering if you played temple siege regularly or you just mapped it regularly.


Because it causes inbalances and reinforces bad play thats why. Everyone in some way shape or form can kill buildings, kill heroes, kill spawn. Not everyone is a good harasser, not everyone can be in two places at once, people cannot teleport like sin can, nobody has summons like summoner. Thats why we have tiers for heroes. Seriously think about what you are saying. Realize that even if these problems could be worked around your system ADDS NOTHING.


Of course players don't let themselves get bombed on, but its very hard not to. At night, it cant be helped you will probably be bombed on. You also fail to realize there is no risk in say bombing a warrior in my next lane while I am farming, while Mutant will struggle to land L2. Mutant might fair better with L3 but that costs an 80 whopping mana to level the skill up once and may not guarantee a killed. While Bomber has four bombs to use, can be no risk, and can safely farm in his lane. Your system is imbalanced and still adds nothing.


-Oh I know they had the idea, I just expanded on it more thoroughly. I guess "my" was the wrong word, I apologize however I gave credit to shredder and others for advocating this idea.

-It was never finished and there was no buzz or hype to play it, because why? Nobody liked it.

-Okay, understood.

-Ownage.

Edit:

Thats another saying this system is not good. So Myself, Fashioned, and now owls. I hope you can see the pattern here.

Final Thoughts
Lets hope Moose and CAFG can get back on board, they could map but also grasped the fundamentals of TS. You are intelligent however, its a waste because you don't grasp the basics and fundamentals. If your fundamentals are weak and pubstar, your ideas for the next generation will reflect this. Adding guys like this to the team will put the future of TS in jeopardy.

Post has been edited 6 time(s), last time on Feb 27 2011, 9:48 pm by DoLLe.

Yeah, that's not cool.

/agree

There's already a TS2 team, please let us do our thing before stealing our ideas, map name, etc.

Flash, sorry, but your system probably won't be implimented. I suggest you stop arguing about it or keep it to PMs. We may make a test version like that sometime but for now we won't be developing it.

Considering no one has bothered to release any sort of TS map on SC2 yet, I don't see a damn thing wrong with what he is doing. If anything, it'll make your lazy asses work just a little bit harder to release something. Right now I still see this as vaporware.

Until you actually release your own map, you can't even begin to scold him.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Feb 27 2011, 11:34 pm by ClansAreForGays.

This map probably isn't even going to be made and by the time it gets done Blizzard DOTA will probably be out already, making it virtually impossible for this to get popular.

Really I don't see a point wasting any time trying to hypothetically balance this, you're already like 8 months behind and there's not even a playable beta out.

You contribute nothing and always write negative statements or borderline troll statements.

You have been proven to be of poor skill and of poor ideas.

Why don't you just stay out the thread?

You know what's funny? The first quote was 5 months ago and since then there's been pretty much no substantial progress... which is kind of what I was pointing out.

I'm sorry that you consider accurate assessment trolling, but since you seem convinced on wasting your time with this, I'll oblige.

Nah. Accurate assesments aren't trolling, Otherwise my above post wouldnt be true about your ideas and skill.

It's simply because every time I've seen you post in the past your skills, ideas, and nature of your posts has always been called into question by multiple people.

Anyways, Thanks for obliging much appreciated ;D.