Real mice only run. They don't kill the cat. So, obviously, some changes must be made from reality.

C'n'M Lab is an example of one where you do not build.

you still build units

I was replying to Unholy; he's essentially saying that CnM is unrealistic since the mouse can buy units, and I disagree with that.

I wasn't getting owned.. I was owning too much :\ ...

That's not what I was trying to say at all, Aristocrat...

What I'm trying to say is that, since the amount of space the mouse has to roam around, it has made the central focus off the game not about Cat and Mice...

Before (yeah, I know how much u hate me for comparing this with older versions.. but I still feel older versions set a better example), Cat doesn't have the speed ups, and runs around the same speed as mice. The CnM games focus more on the Cat destroying the Mice's base and trying to kill the mice, and the Mice running away while taking advantage of the Cat's unawareness to build and gather minerals elsewhere, in order to eventually build up an army and kill the cat.

By making this map alarmingly big, any interactions between the Actual Cat (i.e. The Ultra) vs the Actual Mice (i.e. the Probes) are gone. What we now have is, in the event of near to full house games, the mice just spreading into the corners of the map, and the Cat basically have to make due by buying extra units to even apply any pressure to the mice. There is no interaction between the actual cat and mice. Which is why i keep saying that this game shouldn't be about what cats buy versus what mice buys...

Let's face it... If I was a mouse, I'd hide my probe in the corner, and start getting scvs... spread the scvs in a ton of other places, and try to get a shuttle, mouse hole(civ) or an arbiter asap.... Since the map is so huge, there'd be little chance that the cat will find me or even pay any attention to me and my scvs before I can get enough money to get these things. Of course, you'd say that the cat can buy other units to counter the things that I buy.. but that's exactly what's wrong.. It's NOT the point of Cat and Mouse games...

It's like Changing Archon Tag so that the Archons can spawn carriers while the Probes can build Dragoons and cannons (of course, they later do have these versions, but the archons are NEVER human players.. and only the original version still gets played to this day)
Or, it's like changing Falling Tiles so that your corsair has powerups that can do megablasts to kill of a huge chunk of the tiles, and other corsairs can buy stuff to protect themselves from falling and shit..
Basically, you're overcomplicating a simple system that worked very well before. Even if your current system works Now, it is nothing compared to the original.

As the old saying goes... don't fix what's not broken.

I agree with the part where the cat and mice have no interaction. It's more of the cat just jail camping while he uses a ling/hydra to probe hunt, and the mice just hide in some corner with a wall + cannons + cc and make some other units do their bidding.

Part I don't agree with is the "fixing what's broke" part. He's not fixing anything, he has evolved an old game. It's just that the evolution has happened so many times that it's not really cat n mouse any more, but rather a game with a cat and a mouse in it.

Well Unholy, whatever you think my map is, people still LOVE it so
I am really tired of reading your critiques comparing to old times, and 128x128 is NOT huge size. You just see it huge because the paths and all is small.

Really? I don't see it get played... :\

The newest one that does seem to be popular, and is rightly so.. is cat and mouse shrink... you should check that out . it's different... in a good way.

Well.. w/e you say, man...

It's true, so don't be unholymean lol