Staredit Network > Forums > SC1 Map Showcase > Topic: Temple Siege M8e
Temple Siege M8e
Oct 27 2009, 4:30 am
By: Moose
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Jan 4 2010, 7:32 am Moose Post #321

We live in a society.

Quote from UnholyUrine
Finally, Moose, I want to have the entire changelog starting from the first M series (if u can, omit repeated changes, like changing marine's dmg to 10+2 then 9+3 then 6+9 and etc. ).
????
The change log is publicly available and always has been. Assuming that you know about that and wanted you actually wanted was a special changelist hat skips intermediate versions (ie, a sum total of changes to convert from 1.4 to M8), such a thing does not yet exist and I have no plans to make it as it would be useless to me.




Jan 4 2010, 10:42 am Decency Post #322



Marine's mines have always been an issue. We're stuck with not having a better L4 for him, though. Something like summoning a Marine squadron might work, but other than that I'm blanking.

Unholy, this is going to take a while, but I have nothing better to do at 4:45 AM:

- Green = Good for balance, good for gameplay.
- Red = bad for gameplay or gameplay, with a note.
- Purple = Other, either I'm unsure or it's my suggestions, not actually implemented.
- White = My comments on existing changes.
- Deleted = An obvious bug fix or other issue, or one that's since been overwritten with a new change.

Quote
:: GENERAL
- Fixed the actual final step of capture triggers to use the new capblocking locations.
- Increased respawn time for Warp Gates, so they will be dead another 20 seconds. (One more spawn wave.)
- Improved and streamlined Defiler handling, removing 93 lines of triggers.
- Added triggers that (should) improve accuracy and hit detection of spells using it.
- Death cancels out pre-built spells.
- Increased HP of Zealots from 200 to 250, damage from 40 to 48.
- Decreased cost of Nexus from 80 to 60 minerals, decreased build time. Still pretty much unused, but it's a nice concept
- The countdown timer is reset after everyone picks a hero. The first wave of spawns is sent out at that time. Waiting at the start won't change anything anymore.
- Changed stats of Cannons from 2000 HP, 400 shields, 10 armor to 3000 HP, 100 shields, 5 armor.
- Shields on cannons are maintained at level determined by the HIGHEST spawn level of the two computers.
>> Broodlings = 0, Zerglings = 3, Marines = 10, Zealots = 15, Hydras = 20 Very useful, allows low level spawns to push slightly.
- Computer Players now have 0 base shield upgrades.
- Destroying a Warp Gate now splits the XP for units created there. XP output of one dead Warp Gate is equivalent to that of controlling three outposts. (A gate spawns 3x as many units) Warp Gates reappear in approximately two real-time minutes. Enormous change, do this for sure.
- Redid the spawn-ordering system. One or two players can now command all three lanes. Spawns choose paths independent of the player ordering them.
- Shortened day from 10 minutes to 9 minutes, night from 7 minutes to 6 minutes. I still think it's too high, but that's just me. Also, the game should start with a minute or so left in nighttime. (Too little time and people choose lanes based on opponents, too much and Assassin is too powerful.)
- Spawns are created every 240 DCs (~12 sec) instead of 270 DCs. (~13.5 sec) Didn't notice, doesn't really matter to me.
- Leveling up spawn number adds 1 spawn to each lane instead of 3 to one lane. Spawn number shouldn't even be in the game.
- When leveling up HP, the correct percentage now displays on the fifth upgrade. (+6%)
- South team now deploys heroes on the upper-left (closer to all outposts) of the Temple when starting the game/after death. (M8c)
- Implemented semi-randomized Civilian placement in hero selection. Not true random due to there being 6! = 720 possible placements, but "random enough" for what it needs to do. (M8c) Very important for competitive play. I still think a banning/alternating pick mode should be added and haven't see a valid argument against it.
- Added a message to tell players when they block an outpost capture. (M8c) This should have been in from the start, yes please.
- Standardized locations for capture blocking to a 7x6 location. (2 tiles all directions from the beacon) (M8c) I really like this change, some people don't but I think they usually just didn't realize it was changed.
- Player-owned scourge off the arena are ordered back towards the arena. (affects Assault and Special Ops) (M8c) Whatever.
- Decreased Temple HP from 50,000 to 40,000. Seems just about right, to me.
- Moved Cybernetics Core and Hive from the upgrade area to the stacked buildings area.
- Instead of having six Spires up top, there is one which is given to the player who picks Archer. (net save of 5 buildings)
- Instead of having six Hydralisk Dens up top, there is one which is given to the player who picks Archer. (net save of 5 buildings)
- Instead of having six Robotics Support Bays up top, there is one which is given to the player who picks Light Mage. (with a Pylon, so net save of 4 buildings)
This is still a stupid solution. Just give each player only the 2 or 3 buildings that he needs. It saves confusion, saves units, and saves space.
- Assimilator rates for the two teams are now equal. (was 13/14 and 16/17 before) Duh.
- Gave Command Center, Supply Depot, Barracks, Engineering Bay, Science Facility, Evolution Chamber, Hive, Hydralisk Den, Spire, and Templar Archives generic names of "Structure".
- Forced Random Hero after one game minute for AFKers. Yes, gamebreaking fix.
- Both teams have a Map Revealer at the top right outpost instead of two for south. Duh.
- Reduced HP/shields on Dragoon, Goliath, Vulture, and Firebat spawns. Only the Dragoon was even remotely useful.
- Widened 2 spots on the north path.
Changes on spells to improve hit detection, particularily when multiple spells relying on hit detection are cast simultaneously. Need some details on this, for sure, Moose.
- Assimilators now have 600 shields and 600 HP. Uh, is this an increase or decrease? I'd rather see these made almost all shields, but whatever.
- Day/Night cycles now continue indefinitely. A trigger error previously limited to the number of human players in the game +2.
- Decreased the amount of Razings necessary for XP/cash gain. This has been a long time coming, yes please.
- Moving to the Probe purchase beacon while you have a Probe now displays the list of buildings. Yep, seems obvious.
- Gathering rates of Assimilators modified: takes 60% longer for a team of 3, and 30% longer for a team of 2. (relative to pre-M3 rates) Haven't heard a complain about the Assim rate since, seems pretty solid.
- Briefing is changed and a bit shorter. If you make it longer I'll kill a kitten.
- Removed Nature Temple. (Shield Battery, Medic Spawner) What the fuck?! I liked feeding the other team 24 experience every spawn.
- Fixed the double hero pick of Warrior and Assassin. (resized location)



:: ARCHER
- L2 is now Summon Archer Ally, max of 5. Some people are saying this needs to be nerfed, some people are saying it's too weak. That probably means it's skill-intensive = good.
- L3 is now Rapid Shot, a Guardian-chaingun type spell. Seven shots at 45 + 5 damage. Obvious change.
- Reduced HP on Companions from 350 to 310, damage from 28 + 3 to 19 + 3.
- Reduced upgrade cost of Grooved Spines (Hydralisk Range) from 60 to 45 minerals.
- (My personal input) Make L4 not useless by letting you select the first mutalisks that spawn and use them.
- Fixed a bug where players got the Hydralisk speed upgrade for free by casting L3 a second time.
- Increased base armor from 0 to 1. Whatever.
- Increased upgrade damage from +4 to +5. Yep, explosive damage sucks.
- Mutalisks cannot be rushed off the Arena and remain permanent.
- Reduced upgrade damage for Mutalisks from +4 to +3. Thank you.

:: ASSASSIN
- Fixed a bug that may have resulted in hallucinated obs sticking around after L1, L3, or L4. This bug is annoying as hell and pretty gamebreaking if the player is a dick.
- Increased upgrade damage of Decapitation (L4) to +40. Yep, makes it still useful lategame without a double cast.
- Renamed Skewer to Scythe. It's rather difficult to decapitate with a skewer because it's designed to Skewer things. Skewers don't slice, they impale. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skewer) I'd like to think Skewering someone in the neck with a sword works to Decapitate. =D
- HP increased from 3500 to 4100. Huge buff, but makes him actually useful during the day. Yes.
- Added a small effects portion to L1. (No more instant teleport.) Absolutely necessary. I still think it should be longer or not castable during stuns, but I'm outvoted here.

:: ASSAULT
- L3 is now Carpet Bomber. It also actually stuns both teams now. Yep.
- L4 is now the Berserker Bomb. You transform into a regular Firebat. It explodes into the old firebomb spell after being killed or in 10 seconds, whichever comes first. I haven't even seen anyone cast this spell yet. Just don't re-add nukes.
- L2 and L3 no longer blows up your own and your team's Probes and summons. (M8c)
- L2 Grenade now kills Probes. (M8c)
- L1 is now Corsair with Disruption Web. Enemy heroes under it are slowed.
- L1 now stops mana regeneration of affected players. (M8c) Good enough. I'd rather see it drain mana and just have it affect the LM differently, that's the only reason it was OP with drain.
- L2 is now Grenade with a longer fuse and longer stun duration.
- Increased by half a tile (quarter tile in each direction) the effect area of Grenade. (L2)
Not a huge change, whatever. need details on the fuse and stun duration, though, Moose.
- Decreased Bomber HP from 550 to 450.
- The projectile for the Grenade is now invincible.
- Renamed Corsair.


:: DARK MAGE
- P12 Dark Archons are now removed. Getting kind of sick of copying these P12 triggers. Why not just remove everything from P12? That fixes Volt's spawn wall abuse, too.
- Added message telling players they are no longer cursed for L2. (the other curses are obvious.)
- Decreased channeling time and duration of L3. Was kind of ridiculous how long it lasted.
- L4 curse now stops spawning at 15 Broodlings around a player, not 5. Pretty much all DM has lategame, yep.
- Decreased base armor from 2 to 1.
- Dark Archon now has 300 shields that regenerate on recast. It starts with and recharges to 56 energy.
- Maelstrom cost changed to 65 energy.

- Increased cost of Feedback from 30 to 65 energy. 55 energy, please. Should be instant castable for a lot of reasons.
- Psionic Storm cost increased from 40 to 60 energy. Desperately needed.

:: LIGHT MAGE

- P12 Aldaris are now removed. (L1 + leave game = WALL OF LIGHT!)
- P12 Dragoons are now removed. (L3 + leave game = REALLY BIG WALL OF LIGHT!)

- L2 now places Reavers at the four corners of LM's position (or the closest approximation) for a less bottom-biased spread. Yes please.
- Fixed bug that allowed L4 to be extended by casting L1.
- Light of Binding (L3) Dragoons now have the range upgrade. Yep, this is underused, but mostly because Reaver splash spam is bullshit, which hasn't changed.
- Increased HP from 2800 to 3000.
- Fixed multicast bug from Light of Binding/Light Barrier Combo.
- Reavers from spells level 2 and level 4 are now invincible.
- Psionic Storm cost increased from 40 to 60 energy.
- Reavers now do 100 + 7 damage instead of 110 + 10.


:: MECH
- Is now regular Goliath for increased range.
- Decreased base armor of Bike Mode from 2 to 1. Decreased HP of Bike Mode from 3800 to 2800. Decreased attack of Bike Mode from 30 to 25.
- Increased tank spell damage from 55 + 5 to 70 + 7.
- Increased damage of Bike Mode's Rail Gun from 30 + 2 to 30 + 3.
- Increased damage of Assault Mode from 40 + 5 to 45 + 7, Assault Mode (sieged) from 75 + 7 to 90 + 10.
More damage when in Siege Mode probably wouldn't hurt either since most players don't use the Tank form except to L3+L3.
- All forms are affected by Medic's L4.
- Changed Mech's L4 to be a temporary attack spawn of 3 Goliaths, 2 Vultures, and 2 Sieged Tanks. ("WEAPON BARRAGE") This can be used in all forms and does not transform you. Yep.
- Death-handling triggers now run before spell triggers, which should fix Mech's full heal on death and other such bugs.
- Bike Mode no longer starts with speed. It may be researched for 60 minerals.
- Normal Mode no longer starts with the air range upgrade. It may be researched for 30 minerals.
- Changed trigger action order so that Mech is not displaced when transforming. It may still relocate if surrounded to a point where other ground units are occupying the same space.

- (Personal input) Change the tanks and vulture so that they spawn in a rotation around the Mech. He's 10 times better at chasing people up, and 10 times better at tanking down.


:: MEDIC
- Attack damage changed from 22 + 4 to 19 + 5.
- HP decreased from 5000 to 4800.
- L4 now heals affected heroes to HP + 5 Levels, not 100%. Everything else is the same, insofar as non-hero units are still fully healed, energies are set to 100%, etc.
- Fixed starting energy of Healing Spirits. (L1) Yes, the bug was that spawning a medic with another next to you sometimes set the wrong one to full.
- You can now level up while disabled.
- Death messages for disabled players are no longer delayed.
- Disable is now removed upon death.
- A message now informs disabled players when disable ends.
- Disable doesn't last 60 counts shorter for the south team. (!)
- Eliminating disabled players actually eliminates them.
- If a player leaves while disabled you can actually win.
- Disable now cancels out pre-built spells.

- (Personal input) Did anyone pick this hero in the last tournament and did it contribute? I expected it wouldn't without another buff of some sort, but haven't seen any replays.
- (Personal Input) MAKE IT POSSIBLE TO ATTACK YOUR OWN UNITS. This is so incredibly obvious and it's been promised a half dozen times.


:: MUTANT
- P12 Torrasque is removed if player leaves during L4. Duh.
- Added a charge-up between casting L3 and Lurkers deploying. Definitely needed, this also prevents spamming it slightly because it lengthens the cast time.
- Made Hyper Claw use 16 Lurkers again. Damage and upgrade is halved to 25 + 2. (overall less armor piercing)
- The Lurker spawn for L3 is invincible.
- Mutant's L2 is back to +2 upgrades as with Summoner's lings.
- Assassin's L2 won't break Mutant's L2 Lings causing them to hang out forever.
- Volt's L3 won't break Mutant's L2 Lings causing them to hang out forever.
- Cannot manual attack units after hero selection for instakills.
- Added 15 second cooldown for Chaos Mutation (L4).
- Fixed instant death when casting Chaos Mutation (L4) near doodads.
- No mana regeneration during Chaos Mutation (L4).


:: SPECIAL OPS
- Sniper Rifle (L3) damage is now 100 + 10. This is a really good spell because it's spammable, not because it's too much damage.
- Anti-minecapping triggers no longer activate if enemies are within blocking range. Kind of pointless now. If they're within range the mines probably popped.
- Attack changed from 15 + 2 to 7 + 3. No opinion. I still think this is broken but no one cares because his L3 is so good chained at the moment.
- HP decreased from 4200 to 4000. This is needed if his damage is +3, might need even more of a nerf.
- L4 is now Mine Drone. HALF the mines are invincible. (every other mine) This is a stupid fix. The spell in general is just stupid when it's spammed, which is how everyone played before +3 tank Rine got popular. I think we need a new spell for him.
- Changed L4 to lay 1 mine at a time at a greater speed. This spell is not good for gameplay because it's boring and auto-pilots.
- Changed HP of mines from 5 to 3. 2 HP wouldn't hurt, either.
- Comsat removed, L1 mines added back. Minecapping is not allowed and mines placed on outpost beacons will be REMOVED. I think CAFG's solution is a bit better, but still less than ideal.
- P12 Science Vessels are now removed.
- L2 now summons (or recharges) a Science Vessel. It works like the Dark Mage's L1. Science Vessels have 200 max energy, but you can research to 250 for 30 minerals. (for EMP to rape Volt)

:: SUMMONER
- L2 is now a new spell that creates a Queen above the Summoner just long enough for it to cast Ensnare. Did anyone use this during the tournament?
- Decreased max Zerglings (L1) to 10. 3, 6, 9 depending on 1v1, 2v2, 3v3. Thus way less OP for smaller games. (9 because that gives him a full control group.)
- L1 now summons one ling with +2 upgrades instead of two lings with +1. This also affect's Mutant's L2. Yes, two lings is just stupid.
- Gave speed upgrade to Abyssal Demons, which also have HP increased from 600 to 666. Yes, they need it.
- Increased cost of Adrenal Glands and Metabolic Boost to 75 minerals. Yep.
- Added a cost of 15 energy to Consume. Why?
- Decreased Base armor from 2 to 1. Why?
- Raised cost of Dark Swarm from 75 to 100 energy. Why?
- Consolidated and changed Food For Thought triggers such that 2x Ultras will work without lings present. This spell is still confusing enough that I think it's half the reason people don't take it. 6 lings or 1 ultra = 100%. Tada, incentive to come out of base. I don't think an L3 should weaken the summoner so much. If he goes spells instead of mana so he can leave base, he can't afford this+consume+dark swarm. So, people turtle.
(Personal Input) The hero needs impetus for coming out of base so he's actually interesting to play before 20 minutes in. Perhaps removing the "Whys?" would help with that.

:: WARRIOR
- Decreased HP from 6000 to 5500. Yep. He was essentially unkillable unless quadruple stunned.
- Shields decreased from 150 to 120. L1 still gives 10, L4 gives full. Fixed the string to indicate this.
- Warrior no longer teleports during L3. That was more annoying than it was helpful in 99% of scenarios.
- Charge of Courage (L3) now destroys player summons of the other team.
- Changed damage for L2 from 12 + 2 to 10 + 3.
- Decreased duration of Heroic Strike (L2) from 50 counts to 40. The spamming of this spell by a good player is what's powerful, not the length. I'd favor a simple 1 second cooldown.
- Decreased effects duration (AKA. self-paralysis) of Charge of Courage by 5 pulses. Increased paralysis by 5 pulses. Yes, it was almost useless before.

:: VOLT
- P12 Archon is removed if player leaves during L4.
- Re-sized location for L1 hit detection from .5x.5 to 1x1. I have no idea why this is such an issue. The scourge is 24x24 pixels, the location should be that big. Tada.
- L3 now kills the same spawns for both teams. Duh. But there shouldn't be any created spawns, so this shouldn't be an issue.
- Fixed some pathing issues with outposts and Volt's L1. Probably needs some more detail, Moose?
- You can now be affected by Volt's L1 while disabled by Medic's L2.
- P12 Scourge resulting from Volt's L1 in combination with other spells are now removed.
- Volt L1 spell subtracts 10 mana for both teams instead of 15 for one and 10 for the other. Duh.
- Increased damage when Supercharged (L4) from 80 + 8 to 90 + 9. Why? Overpowered already.
- No mana regeneration during Supercharge (L4). Any nerf to this can't hurt.
- L1 Scourges disappear when Volt dies. Why?
- Decreased duration of Magnetic Channel (L2) from 80 to 60 counts. I think this was changed again after the fact, but I couldn't find anything on it.
(Personal Input) This hero is overpowered if the game lasts for a while. There is literally nothing he cannot stop with farm due to his huge AoE on L3, and L3->L4 combo will destroy anyone pretty easily. As has been said: he's similar to but better than Warrior in almost every way, lategame.

More to follow....


Eh, that was easier for me than I thought. About a half hour. =o

Post has been edited 4 time(s), last time on Jan 4 2010, 10:57 am by FaZ-.



None.

Jan 4 2010, 10:45 am Decency Post #323



Quote
NOTE: Changes listed BELOW take you from UnholyUrine's 1.4 to 1.4M !!!
They do NOT take you from one version of 1.4M to the next !!!

Yeah I'm not going through this part. 99% of them are obvious and should have been done to begin with. I moved the hero changes, however.

GENERAL
- Made text related to the green player say green.
- Fixed text problems, spelling, grammar, and inconsistencies. Before you say there are still some problems, it's pretty terrible and I gave up on going through ALL the strings.
- Removed free Civilian for tutorial completion.
- Made HP upgrade percentage amounts consistent and truthful.
- Gave each player a Map Revealer in the skill point purchase area.
- Got rid of the 160-200-240-280-320-360-400-450 max mana jumps and actually made them all +20, except the 450 jump.
- The final mana upgrade tells you that it's +50 mana and that it's maxed.
- Civilians for eliminated players (level up area only) and players who leave (all) are removed.
- Removed ability for players to upgrade Terran Ship Weapons and Protoss Air Weapons/Plating.
- Reset Paralysis upon death.
- Reset Mana upon death.
- Remove curses upon death.
- Fixed post-spell lingering of effects units: Queens, Devourers, Valkyries, Scouts, Dropships.
- Consolidated XP/level-up triggers into one area. Removed the double level at 850 xp.
- Consolidated various other triggers, did some organizing.
- Adjusted locations on hero selection to prevent multiselection of heroes.
- Made civilian balance more efficent and work independently of which slots are filled.
- Improved anti-hack.
- The display unit Probe for the south team is now invincible.
- The Temples have 50000 HP and 25 armor.
- The Gates now have 9000 HP and 20 armor.
- Fixed Kill Score to XP disparities between the teams.
- Changed the max XP cap to apply to units giving over 600 kill score. This means all heroes and upper spawns and such giving a ton of kill score will be worth a max of 16 per kill.
- Slightly enlarged South team's base. (fixed some pathing AI problems... and because it was way smaller than North team's.)
- Kerrigans, Light Mage, and Summoner respawn with 0 energy.
- Gathering rates of Assimilators modified: takes 70% longer for a team of 3, and 40% longer for a team of 2.
- Renamed Vespene Geysers and Assimilators.

OUTPOST RELATED
- Outpost captures and spawns fixed. I think.
- Capturing a base gives an XP bonus. (12 to you, 3 to team)
- Captured bases spawn less units.
- Captured bases now give xp bonuses. (Broods = 1 xp/2 spawns, Lings = 1 xp/spawn, Rines = 2 xp/spawn, Zealots = 4 xp/spawn, Hydralisk = 7 xp/spawn.)
- Teleports disable when non-spawn (P7/P8) ground unit enemies are near them.
- Air Units cannot capture Warp Gates.
- Made Outpost Gates invincible.

SPAWN AND BUILDING RELATED
- Decreased purchase cost of spawn level up from 5 to 4.
- Medic spawn building creates 3 Medics.
- Doubled build time of Assimilators, increased cost from 20 to 25.
- Killing an Assimilator gives a 4 xp and 5 mineral bonus to you and your team.
- P7/P8 Hydralisks have speed upgrade.
- Changed Probe cost from 30 to 25.
- Spawns don't shut off after level passes hydra. It just stays at Hydra.
- General beefing up of advanced (Marine and above) spawned units.
- Spawning buildings now spawn 4 instead of 6 units. (to compensate for increased toughness of spawns and to improve xp/difficulty ratio)
- Cheaper buildings all around.
- Removed Zealot Spawner (Ice Temple) to add War Factory, Cybernetics Core costing 200 minerals. It spawns 1 Reaver (BATTLE TANK) with 250 shields, 1000 hp, 15 armor, and 135 damage.
- Removed Marine Spawner (Water Temple) to add a Teleport Destination. It costs 100 minerals, and each team may only have one at a time. A fourth beacon with a Nexus has been added to the base... you may teleport to the Nexus from there.
- Broodlings have 60 HP and do 7 dmg.
- Pylon stats: 1500 HP, 10 Armor, 400 shields.
- Cannon stats: 2000 HP, 10 Armor, 400 shields, 60 dmg.

TERRAIN/PATHING
- Made some connections between paths and areas.
- Fixed two clog spots of "stormgaying".
- Prettied up the skill point area. Good luck spending your skill points on things you don't want unintentionally! ;)

After reading through all of the small things he changed. (As well as deleting a few dozen "simplification" comments, I think you're far better off just asking permission to work with Moose's newest version and add what you'd like to it. I'm sure people have opinions on how to balance Phantom/Dragoon/Lurker, too, but I hate 1.5 with a passion and think Lurker should be completely trashed. But, there you have it, if that's not the case.



None.

Jan 4 2010, 4:49 pm Moose Post #324

We live in a society.

My comments are in italics.

Quote from name:FaZ-
- Shortened day from 10 minutes to 9 minutes, night from 7 minutes to 6 minutes. I still think it's too high, but that's just me. Also, the game should start with a minute or so left in nighttime. (Too little time and people choose lanes based on opponents, too much and Assassin is too powerful.)
Probably true. Plus spawns may end up "stronger" if they go up in level faster.

- Spawns are created every 240 DCs (~12 sec) instead of 270 DCs. (~13.5 sec) Didn't notice, doesn't really matter to me.
I like to think it helps with fast units double laning by cutting off approximately 2.5 seconds realtime. That was imbalanced and stupid.

- Standardized locations for capture blocking to a 7x6 location. (2 tiles all directions from the beacon) (M8c) I really like this change, some people don't but I think they usually just didn't realize it was changed.
Well, it does tell you in the game the size of the locations. Maybe I'll add in terrain tiles or sprites at the four corners that illustrate the location size, even if it'll look dumb.

- Player-owned scourge off the arena are ordered back towards the arena. (affects Assault and Special Ops) (M8c) Whatever.
FYI, things flying out the arena tend to cause bugs.

- Forced Random Hero after one game minute for AFKers. Yes, gamebreaking fix.
It isn't really gamebreaking since nothing spawns before the game starts and the day timer is reset to full. It's legitimately to keep players from forcing everyone to sit around for a long time, because they no longer gain anything from doing so.

Changes on spells to improve hit detection, particularily when multiple spells relying on hit detection are cast simultaneously. Need some details on this, for sure, Moose.
There are two components. The more noticable would be defilers spawning not on the person, but slightly to the lower left. The defilers are moved to the center of the hero's location before any hit detection triggers are run.
The second component prevents clashing should two hit detection spells be cast. Suppose a P1 Assassin stuns P4 on the top lane and a P2 Volt stuns P5 on the bottom lane in the same trigger cycle. P4 would get stunned. P5 would run the hit detection check for P1... since he's in the bottom lane, it wouldn't hit. All of P5's defilers would be removed, he wouldn't be stunned by the Volt and would walk away. The odds of this happening are quite rare indeed, but I took the time to manage the defilers perfectly and prevent this.


- Removed Nature Temple. (Shield Battery, Medic Spawner) What the fuck?! I liked feeding the other team 24 experience every spawn.
Sorry!


:: ASSAULT
- Increased by half a tile (quarter tile in each direction) the effect area of Grenade. (L2)[/color] Not a huge change, whatever. need details on the fuse and stun duration, though, Moose.
Fuse is 72, stun is 80. Whoops, I may have created a permastun when I increased the stun duration. I might put the stun duration back to 60 but have the spell drain 25 mana on a hit.


:: DARK MAGE
- P12 Dark Archons are now removed. Getting kind of sick of copying these P12 triggers. Why not just remove everything from P12? That fixes Volt's spawn wall abuse, too.
For the spells that are supposed to knock out but not kill spawns, like Assassin's L2.

- L4 curse now stops spawning at 15 Broodlings around a player, not 5. Pretty much all DM has lategame, yep.
Not entirely true. I've had some games where we wouldn't have won if I wasn't putting tons of L2 and especially L3 on the temple-sitting enemy team.


:: MECH
- (Personal input) Change the tanks and vulture so that they spawn in a rotation around the Mech. He's 10 times better at chasing people up, and 10 times better at tanking down.
There's a better way to do Vultures now. CAFG showed me it, I just haven't implemented it yet. You will see. I'll have to do something else about the tanks.


:: MEDIC
- (Personal input) Did anyone pick this hero in the last tournament and did it contribute? I expected it wouldn't without another buff of some sort, but haven't seen any replays.
- (Personal Input) MAKE IT POSSIBLE TO ATTACK YOUR OWN UNITS. This is so incredibly obvious and it's been promised a half dozen times.
Medic might need some reworking along with the LM and Summoner.
Also, I made L3 give 25 mana to your teammates if they aren't in range of the 120 area. I probably should've mentioned that.



:: SPECIAL OPS
- Anti-minecapping triggers no longer activate if enemies are within blocking range. Kind of pointless now. If they're within range the mines probably popped.
It's important only because otherwise the beacon would be a giant safe zone.


:: SUMMONER
- Added a cost of 15 energy to Consume. Why?
- Raised cost of Dark Swarm from 75 to 100 energy. Why?
The spells are pretty powerful. Plague versus any low-HP hero (especially early game before anyone buys HP) is a forced trip to Temple. Dark Swarm allows for capture of any outpost because Summoner feels like it. (Unless other heroes are sitting in their outpost for some reason. Then again, Summoner usually doesn't want to capture all the outposts because enemy outposts = more areas to feed.) It's also crippling to many heroes and opens the path for devastation of the base and temple.

- Decreased Base armor from 2 to 1. Why?
Why should Summoner have extra armor?


:: WARRIOR
- Decreased HP from 6000 to 5500. Yep. He was essentially unkillable unless quadruple stunned.
Still pretty close. :P


:: VOLT
- L3 now kills the same spawns for both teams. Duh. But there shouldn't be any created spawns, so this shouldn't be an issue.
I should have specified spawns and summons.

- Fixed some pathing issues with outposts and Volt's L1. Probably needs some more detail, Moose?
The P7/P8 scourge would get movement orders from the outpost location which would stop them from doing the junkyard dog movement.

- L1 Scourges disappear when Volt dies. Why?
Because otherwise they wouldn't remove. Then a scourge that's been wandering for ten minutes could bump into you and stun you.

- Decreased duration of Magnetic Channel (L2) from 80 to 60 counts. I think this was changed again after the fact, but I couldn't find anything on it.
Still 60.

(Personal Input) This hero is overpowered if the game lasts for a while. There is literally nothing he cannot stop with farm due to his huge AoE on L3, and L3->L4 combo will destroy anyone pretty easily. As has been said: he's similar to but better than Warrior in almost every way, lategame.
Volt is a weird hero.


Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jan 4 2010, 5:15 pm by Mini Moose 2707.




Jan 4 2010, 7:09 pm ClansAreForGays Post #325



Quote
- Removed Nature Temple. (Shield Battery, Medic Spawner) What the fuck?! I liked feeding the other team 24 experience every spawn.
lol :P




Jan 4 2010, 9:20 pm ClansAreForGays Post #326



Did you compress M8T? cuz ppl dl it reallllly slowly




Jan 5 2010, 12:05 am MEMEME670 Post #327



Quote from Mini Moose 2707
Volt is a weird hero.
[/quote]

He is imba late game defending, unless you have something that can live through being stunned and then powerhit, assasin being the only thing that basically can vs a good volt. His splash also allows him to farm those spawns coming to his temple really well.

(Random thought to prevent stupid end game scenarios from happening.) What if every time a warp gate dies, your bases loses 1-2 bars? It wouldnt change much if you get broken into a couple times, and would offset the overexp you get from having a warp gate destroyed and allow people who cant do anything to a base because of pure matchup (some heroes are better at hit and runs, mutant is HORRIBLE vs any defensive character at basekilling (save l4, but if their good you can still die), while warrior can tank your hits and kill your base with tons of hp.)

Assault and spec ops need new l4s, while summoner needs a revamp, and LM needs to be looked at.

Assault l4 thought...

Spawns a ghost that has five seconds to call a nuke (i would suggest lockdown if we could edit the closing time on it, but since it only affects mech and he can trans out of it, it could ALMOST work, but it wouldnt.) and then dies. The ghost has 0+0 damage and 100 hp, and can not cloak. The ghost is also locked in his spawn place, and after five seconds + nuke time dies (if is removed the nuke will still hit i believe, and would also look better.)

It makes nuke strategic, instead of win.

Spec. Ops l4 thought.

Stunt Double

Spawns a rine that does some portion of Spec Ops damage (make it spawn on him, but as close to any nearby enemies as possible, as this will redirect autoattack) Has some hp (based on hp level? dont like that idea... it would need to be killable, but not paper..500?) and can not stim, but becomes like a summon for thirty(fifteen, ten, its all based on damage/hp) seconds. In addition, any enemy spawn fire will be directed to this unit if it is in range. On spawn, spell units are directed to attack this unit.

Gives him options, and lets him flee if needed, but he cant flee from something like a good stun or good opponents, unless he is good. Takes as much skill to use well as it does to defeat, and isnt too hard to comprehend.



None.

Jan 5 2010, 12:35 am Decency Post #328



@Moose

My complaints with the Summoner is that each of those changes makes him easier to kill, so it leads to people sitting in base. I understand the power in the spells, but taking away 2/3 of his defiler mana regeneration is gigantic.

As for P12 Removal, I really wouldn't care if things just got removed. They are buggy anyway and rules allow for allies to kill them after the fact, which is just stupid. If we're getting rid of buyable spawns, there should be no question on this because nothing is really important enough in EXP except Medics and Dark Archons, which it was kind of lame to get free experience just for stunning, anyway.

Quote
I like to think it helps with fast units double laning by cutting off approximately 2.5 seconds realtime. That was imbalanced and stupid.
I don't see how it would... if the unit is fast enough to get from one lane to the other, he can still do it. A vulture with 7 attack upgrades has no issues microing things chasing him along the way. I guess if people are bad, yeah. -.-

CAFG showed me his vulture replacement too, I had forgotten about it. Definitely use that.

@MEMEME
Assault L4: That's a BETTER spell than his old nuke, and that was broken. Cloak isn't the issue, the issue is forcing things to sit at the base because of the mobility afforded by the dropship. No way.
Spec Ops L4: Marine is already used for spawns. This wouldn't work anyway, there's no way to direct units to attack a certain one save for making everything else invincible, and no one would be confused anyway.


Anyway, why don't you get some replays up from the tournament, CAFG, and then we can take a look at what seems to be overpowered/dumb? Then everyone can have a day or two to make a reasonable list of changes they'd like to see in the next version, we can consolidate them into a single mostly agreed upon list, and Moose can make the changes. Then you can just host a TS night or something, it doesn't have to be a tournament. I used to do it for Snipers maps when I released them, just tell everyone to come play new map at 9 PM in Op Wherever and loads of people will come.



None.

Jan 5 2010, 2:40 am Lt.Church Post #329



oh uhh alil bug i had im my last game on M8T; the spec ops did minespam all over the place, right okay; but an invincible mine was stuck running in bottom camp and it wouldnt blow up with me right next to it no problem not the maps fault but what happened was 1. for some reason no spawn would walk past it completely shutting off low base, and i couldnt use the beacon to teleport to the camp anymore so basically became a "wait until spec op can force his way in and take it" situation, please make it so mines dont prevent you from using the beacon its just stupid to have something that cant be killed and can go in without being hit block you from going to your base.



None.

Jan 5 2010, 2:44 am Moose Post #330

We live in a society.

Replay please.




Jan 5 2010, 3:27 am xYoshix Post #331



I hate when people are like "OMG U NOOB!! YOU DIDN'T RANDOM THAT WHY YOU KILL US" It's a "pussy's way out" as FH-Wally and his silly clanmates say. I think it's just an excuse for losing ^^

Anyways....

BUG: You can spawn more than one mine drone at a time for spec. ops. You can cast l4 while it's out to spawn another scourge. I don't mind it, though xD

Also, Mech can still transform when eliminated if timed correctly. Didn't you fix that bug?

@ Church: Sentences please...I can't figure out what you're saying.



None.

Jan 5 2010, 4:25 am Jack Post #332

>be faceless void >mfw I have no face

@dual mine drone bug

The second scourge doesn't spawn mines till the first one is done, so it doesn't affect much. Still a bug.



Red classic.

"In short, their absurdities are so extreme that it is painful even to quote them."

Jan 5 2010, 5:32 am MEMEME670 Post #333



Quote from name:FaZ-

@MEMEME
Assault L4: That's a BETTER spell than his old nuke, and that was broken. Cloak isn't the issue, the issue is forcing things to sit at the base because of the mobility afforded by the dropship. No way.

I dont understand this. It forces the assault to risk himself, as he personally has to be where the nuke is going to be. Also its difficult to position the ghost without cloak due to cannon range and spawns...

I still dont like how much damage it does, however.

Spec Ops L4: Marine is already used for spawns. This wouldn't work anyway, there's no way to direct units to attack a certain one save for making everything else invincible, and no one would be confused anyway..[/quote]

Its only supposed to redirect autoattacks/spells, so if your mech and your l4 i can l4 and GTFO before you kill me if im about to die, or i can use it as a tank, deal a ton of damage, and maybe kill you. Its more of a defensive thing then anything, as he is a defensive character.

Also, cant you order units to attack (unit) as you can order them to do other things such as attack move..



None.

Jan 5 2010, 8:37 am Jack Post #334

>be faceless void >mfw I have no face

You can't get units to attack specific units, no.



Red classic.

"In short, their absurdities are so extreme that it is painful even to quote them."

Jan 5 2010, 9:01 am Decency Post #335



MEMEME, Assault has a dropship. He risks almost nothing to spawn a ghost, and only an idiot walks it into range of cannons. Not sure how you're not getting this.



None.

Jan 5 2010, 9:05 am ClansAreForGays Post #336



It very possible to detect when the ghost is loaded, and to trigger the dropship to force unload the ghost. It's not even one of those "nightmare" triggering scenarios.

Quote
Anyway, why don't you get some replays up from the tournament, CAFG, and then we can take a look at what seems to be overpowered/dumb?
Every match except one was won by spawn rush.

I like the TS night idea. I'll even help promote it if faz doesn't mention he was the one who came up with it more twice a day.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jan 5 2010, 9:11 am by ClansAreForGays.




Jan 5 2010, 5:35 pm Decency Post #337



That still doesn't stop the Firebat from being in the Dropship, flying behind the enemy base, spawning a ghost, and leaving... which was exactly the reasoning behind removing nukes from him in the first place.

Again, you're the only who cares about credit. Give it a rest.



None.

Jan 5 2010, 7:49 pm MEMEME670 Post #338



Quote from name:FaZ-
That still doesn't stop the Firebat from being in the Dropship, flying behind the enemy base, spawning a ghost, and leaving... which was exactly the reasoning behind removing nukes from him in the first place.

Again, you're the only who cares about credit. Give it a rest.

We could work around this....possibly.

Also, you can block off the couple areas that can be nuked pretty easily.



None.

Jan 6 2010, 5:39 am Neki Post #339



What is Temple Siege M8T?



None.

Jan 6 2010, 7:58 am Moose Post #340

We live in a society.

M8T is the most recent version. T stands for Tournament, kind of like when I made 1.4MT.




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