Staredit Network > Forums > Null > Topic: Yeah?
Yeah?
Nov 13 2009, 12:52 am
By: ToA  

Nov 13 2009, 12:52 am ToA Post #1

Que Sera, Sera.

The anthropologists and sociologist talk about an ethnocentric predicament in which we all find ourselves, by which they mean that the people of one society, one tribe, or one culture simply cannot judge in anyway the value, the rule, the practices, the habits, or the beliefs of the people of another tribe and culture since any judgment that would be made would have to be made from the point of view of a given society; and therefore judgment made from that point of view would be necessarily be prejudiced and invalid.

From my English teacher.

Discuss or something.




Nov 13 2009, 1:01 am Moose Post #2

We live in a society.

It bothers me when someone is told that he/she/they "can't" judge something when they are certainly more than capable of making a judgment -- the real issue is with the accuracy of said judgment.




Nov 13 2009, 1:09 am NudeRaider Post #3

We can't explain the universe, just describe it; and we don't know whether our theories are true, we just know they're not wrong. >Harald Lesch

Open minded people that have informed themselves about the other culture can make a valid judgment.
This is a rare case however...




Nov 13 2009, 1:19 am Centreri Post #4

Relatively ancient and inactive

I can judge all I want, and I'll use my judgement, not anyone elses, to determine the value of that culture to me. It's really that simple for me. I apply this to almost everything - 'Respect all religions' - Why would I do that? That one caused millions of deaths since its conception and promotes inequality where none exists. 'Everyone is special' - You're a moron. 'Just because you think that they're primitive, it's only because you're not familiar with their culture' - Yes, and I'm using this familiarity to judge them based on my culture. Problem?



None.

Nov 13 2009, 1:19 am Vrael Post #5



Quote
any judgment that would be made would have to be made from the point of view of a given society
I would like some evidence to be shown as to why an arbitrator could not recognize the other party's set of values and make a judgement with that in consideration.

Quote
and therefore judgment made from that point of view would be necessarily be prejudiced and invalid.
Evidence as to why judgement from a particular point of view implies prejudice and invalidity should be shown.



None.

Nov 13 2009, 1:44 am rayNimagi Post #6



Judgment will always be prejudiced to some degree. A person's upbringing and values of their society will ALWAYS influence their believes and the outlook on other cultures.

In addition, judgment is relative and therefore there is no absolutely "right" or absolutely "wrong" way to judge.



Win by luck, lose by skill.

Nov 13 2009, 1:44 am CaptainWill Post #7



Quote from Vrael
Quote
any judgment that would be made would have to be made from the point of view of a given society
I would like some evidence to be shown as to why an arbitrator could not recognize the other party's set of values and make a judgement with that in consideration.

Take into consideration, yes; be free from cultural difference, no. Some cultures have completely different ways of thinking about certain things. By taking the set of values of another culture 'into consideration' when making a judgement, you are acting as an interpreter or an emulator seeing as these are not your natural cultural values.

This doesn't mean that such judgements are invalid, but they will be coloured, however slightly, by cultural difference.



None.

Nov 13 2009, 1:51 am Falkoner Post #8



Quote
It bothers me when someone is told that he/she/they "can't" judge something when they are certainly more than capable of making a judgment -- the real issue is with the accuracy of said judgment.

Yeah, this has always bugged me too, especially when people pull the "judge not that ye be not judged" card, although I find it interesting that in the footnotes in the King James Version of the bible, as printed by the LDS church, the JST translation says "Judge not unrighteous judgement", a much less ridiculous statement.



None.

Nov 13 2009, 5:33 am Fire_Kame Post #9

wth is starcraft

It's cute because you think you're using big words. :)




Nov 13 2009, 6:09 am Norm Post #10



Of course it's inaccurate to judge a culture (or anything for that matter) if you have limited knowledge about it.

I witness countless people everyday making comments that make them sound like morons because they are talking about something which they know nothing about.



None.

Nov 13 2009, 6:15 am Dapperdan Post #11



Quote from Fire_Kame
It's cute because you think you're using big words. :)

Hrm?



None.

Nov 13 2009, 6:21 am ToA Post #12

Que Sera, Sera.

Quote from Fire_Kame
It's cute because you think you're using big words. :)

I didn't write it, my English teacher did. It's an part of an assignment we just finished.




Nov 13 2009, 6:37 am Vrael Post #13



Quote from CaptainWill
Quote from Vrael
Quote
any judgment that would be made would have to be made from the point of view of a given society
I would like some evidence to be shown as to why an arbitrator could not recognize the other party's set of values and make a judgement with that in consideration.

Take into consideration, yes; be free from cultural difference, no. Some cultures have completely different ways of thinking about certain things. By taking the set of values of another culture 'into consideration' when making a judgement, you are acting as an interpreter or an emulator seeing as these are not your natural cultural values.

This doesn't mean that such judgements are invalid, but they will be coloured, however slightly, by cultural difference.
I would claim that an arbitrator could make a judgement free from either societal point of view, simply by taking an object of comparison.
Say that society 1 holds these values
A is 'good'
B is good
C is bad

Society 2:
A is bad
B is good
C is good

Say C is murder. In the context of society 1, its an evil despicable thing. In the context of society 2, murder may be the means through which one comes into manhood, or power, or whatever society2 deems "good". So how does this arbitrator make a judgement? He takes an object of comparison. If the object of comparison is the longevity of an individual in a society, then society1 is right and society2 is wrong because people who don't get murdered live longer. If the object of comparision is a fitter society, then society2 is right and society1 is wrong because the effect of murder induces a "survival of the fittest" scenario.
Quote from name:Many">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Is-ought]Many modern naturalistic philosophers see no impenetrable barrier in deriving "ought" from "is" believing an "ought" can derive from an "is" whenever we analyze goal-directed behavior, and a statement of the form "In order for A to achieve goal B, A ought to do C" exhibits no category error and may be factually verified or refuted.
This exemplifies much of what I mean, when you take what I was calling an object of comparison, a "goal" in the wikipedia article, you can deduce what "ought" to be done from the goal, and apply it where necessary to the judgement in question.

Secondly, an individual may exist within society1 but hold society2's values anyway.



None.

Nov 13 2009, 9:50 am CaptainWill Post #14



That's all well and good, but you don't seem to be aware that your arbitrator may have an ingrained cultural perception of his 'object of comparison'.

Suppose a pastoral culture (e.g. Bedouin; Native American) has no words in its language describing the concept of private land ownership. When this culture comes into contact with another culture which values private land ownership and contracts greatly, can either culture describe and make a judgement regarding the other which is not limited by their own perception?

This article pretty much sums up my position: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_relativism



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