=) So far ahead of this one. The necromancer actually summons skeletons passively to a maximum amount decided by his passive skeleton mastery bonus. When he uses "Night of Unborn", and he is already at maximum skeletons, an old one is removed and one is created at full health (regardless of skeleton master level, since this is an MP costing spell). As for summoning of Grave dancers or (If you're playing as AI) Vehicle Drones, the maximum summon limit is enforced through my systems - which after at least 1 of these units is summoned, your summoning spell is replaced by a spell that influences the already summoned creatures. (See "Lich Candle", and - even thought I might have not listed this spell - "Detonation")

Edit: Thank you for everyone who helped me test today. 1 More check box has been conquered, and 2 bugs have gotten the SHIT kicked out of them.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Oct 1 2009, 6:13 am by Norm.

Can you please tell me what the uses of the flowing units are in your map: Arbiter (and hero), overlord (+hero), drop ship, shuttle, muta (+hero), bunker, drone, reaver, normal ghost, interceptor (if used w/o carrier), scarab, and nuke.

Is anyone doing the Mind & Machinery story? If not, I'd like to do it.

If you need help perfecting your terrain, I can help, as I have lots of extra time on my hands. I'm quite good at placing individual tiles to make existing terrain look better.
(and I'd like to beta test, plz! If there's a glitch in your game, i'll find it for sure. #1 glitch finder is me!)
[and GJ on your map! It kicks ass!]

Edit: You should add a settings part at the beginning of the game, where players can customize parts of the game. Ie:
1st choice: Standard or Custom (if standard, game starts as normal)
if custom:
sudden death or 10 lives or infinite lives
darkness (yes/no) Perma night
light (yes/no) perma day
dusk (yes/no) perma dusk
forced random characters?
no mini map (yes/no) - spams constant pings on mini map, rendering it useless
fast start (yes/no): if yes, gives ## stat points at beginning to accelerate the game. ## can be the same, or different, if characters are to have slow/fast starts, etc.\

added anti hack: during settings, start the game with self vision disabled, and every player with a cc and scv. if they auto mine while they cant see their scv's, they get dropped from the game.

edit again: Do you know if you can modify the old anti hack trigs (that no longer work) so that you make all players appear that they fufill the particular eud requirement? If you can set the value so all players 'hack', any person using zmh will return the corrected value, which identifies the player as a hacker. I have no idea how eud's work, but just a thought.... (yes, I know there is a tutorial on it; I'm too lazy to read it.)

freaking edit again: I know you can use eud's to detect text. Once again, still have no clue about eud's, but.... if a player changes it from low to high or extra high, please spam a message across the player's screen to put it on low lat. Keep the message spamming on only that player's screen till the eud's detect "low latency" or something. Most players who are at least classified as "non-newb" tend to like low latency and lag, rather than high lat with less lag, and horrible unit response time.

using eud text trigs can also be used if you were to type in, say, "help": the game then shows a message with info about each character, or your character's spells. or if you typed "tutorial" it starts the tutorial.

Post has been edited 3 time(s), last time on Oct 1 2009, 7:05 am by fat_flying_pigs.

Sure:
•Arbiter + Hero are not used.
•Overlord is used, Hero is not used.
•Drop ship is used for Psychopath.
•Shuttle is not used.
•Muta + Hero are used for spells.
•Bunker is used for defensive structure.
•Drone is used for Necromancer.
•Reaver is used for spells.
•Ghost is used for spawn, and also some other things.
•Intercepter is not used
•Scarab goes with Reaver.
•Nuke is not included.


Go for it =). As of right now, the only stories that are completed are for Artificial Intelligence and The Necromancer.



I'll see what I need for terrain after I get majority of the trigger work completed. The terrain is nearly done, (about 91%), but yeah the main thing it needs is some touching up and some more decoration.

Also, OF COURSE you can BETA test. I'll probably be ready to start BETA testing is ~2 weeks. (I will be extra happen if you find glitches for me to fix, but I'll be the happiest if no one finds ANY glitches).

p.s. THANKS!



All of this would jack up balance way too much to be a positive addition to the map. Many heroes get balanced out by strengths and weaknesses at different times of the day. Pings get really annoying when a lot of them are going on at once, so I don't really want to do that. The only custom setting I really have for players is the ability to toggle EXP Notifications on or off.


I am unsure as to if I'm going to bother with anti-hacks for this. Douche-bags that like to ruin the game for everyone by making it imba in their favor will always exist, and even a perfect anti-hack would only be functional for so long. As the map comes closer to completion, then I may contemplate it a bit more, but for now...


I do not wish to use EUD's for my map.

You should use anti hack. ZYN's not going to go back and forth to update his hack to beat 1 map, the only time he updates is to beat a much used anti hack.


Why not?

One last thing. Make sure to use 2x clusters of bunkers so psychopath can't dropship freeze the bunkers/turrets/cannons (cannons i think).

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Oct 1 2009, 7:00 pm by fat_flying_pigs.

Dropship freeze? <--- Can somebody explain this to me?


In other news: Crafting my Randomized Item spawn system as I type this.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Oct 2 2009, 11:15 pm by Norm.

To touch on a portion of the map that has not been discussed too much: Items and Artifacts.

I have updated the second post with additional information about the available items and artifacts that you can find and pick up as you play this game. I have developed a system of rarity that will make the more valuable artifacts a lot harder to come by, so if you find one- you better try to hold on to it. =).

As of right now, I have all the basic triggers written up on the map for these systems, I am just beginning the process of copy and pasting them ~250 times to complete the system. You all know how that goes =).

Additionally, I would like to thank Flashbeer for his contribution of ideas for natural disaster-ish things that will occur on the map. For reference, I have decided to include something along the lines of the Water Geyser blocking off area / Players can get washed up to another location idea. I have also decided to include an event where the earth shakes and this is geared to mess with the players, and also hide any artifacts that are on the battle field.

Finally, @fat flying pigs: I don't use EUDs in my mapping. It's just not my style, sorry.

This map looks great so far, but I see many similarities with this and Temple Siege. People might complain about it.

I could help test and/or do terrain if you like.

I would take RPG out of the name.

Yeah it is a bit similar to that game in the way that it is an AoS with 12 heroes. I have also purposely kept the layout to a similar structure so that people could play the map and not have to re-learn everything.

Some people have used the phrase "TS - except with better heroes, more spells, items, and a story that makes sense." This could be accurate.

I mean, yeah the map isn't a 100% ground breaking idea, it's (In my opinion) drastic improvement of a very popular map, and a lot of first impressions are going to be "Wow this is just like....." and that's okay because yes, it is like whatever game. There's nothing I can do about it, because that's the genre the game is going to fit into. Hey, sure I can promise you that my map is going to have a lot of features and added complexities that many AoS players aren't going to be use to, I can promise you that things are going to be unique. Just look at the heroes: you can tell that they are a lot different from eachother, I purposely made a big deal about 'breaking the typical 4-spell mold.' That's exactly what I did. You will see that the map has a lot of integrity once the BETA is out and you play it for yourself.

p.s. OF COURSE you can test =), and If you would like to improve on my terrain, I would love to see it.


Oh man, I've been considering it for some time... I will probably take it out, but I haven't yet. I still haven't even given the map a unique file name, so we'll see what happens.

Ideas for names:
Sanctuary of War
Asylum for Heroes
Fate for Heroes
Eternal Heroes
Heroic Warfare

It would be cool to see come kind of ending if you (or whole team) wins with lvl 55. Something like a 1 out of 4 short but cool endings for all the hard work.
This could give more story on the whole game in general (like how they won this time, but will just be remade next game) or you may even make endings for the hero you play as, making people try all characters to find out their stories/endings. You could even have a combination, a 3/4 chance to get the hero's story and a 1/4 chance to get the game's story.

Hm... Secret endings =). I dunno if they'd be out of place though in a game that will (hopefully) create high turnover. It would be one of the things I could add in later versions perhaps.

As for those names, as of right now, I like Hero Sanctuary so far, just because it fits the story a lot. Nothing else suggested really clicks.

p.s. Finished Items completely, working on artifacts now.

You can freeze bunker with air units the same way you freeze a missile turret with an observer. This is most commonly done with mutas, overlords, and shuttles, although it can theoretically be done with any air unit (including buildings, i believe, although I haven't tested it). By perfectly flying over a bunker and holding pos, the bunker will no be able to attack the unit above the bunker. Also, many times, this will actually freeze the bunker, making it unable to attack any units at all.
I have done this in snowball wars, and my friends use it in diplo (stacked bunk in Paris), and a muta rush strategy in normal sc. It is VERY effective if used right.

---

The names of "Mind & Machinery" and "Artificial Intelligence" are a lil confusing. If anything, the "machinery" part beling to the AI, as the unit uses fuel. And there isn't much "mind" in the scv and tank combo. I'd suggest renaming the "Mind & Machinery" unit to "Survivalist" or some variation. Make the unit (storyline and name) seem like an unknown lone unit, who has survived centuries by just building stuff. He has no purpose, but lives only to survive, to continue existing.

As for the storyline, do you want it to include all of the units abilities? (like how Artificial Intel's story is made?) Or should it simply be a history of who/what the unit is, and a story of its life?

---

Questions about Items/Artifacts: can more than 1 Artifact be used? Is there a limit? If there is, can we hold onto more, but only have 1 active. Can we destroy artifacts, so others cannot have them? Can you drop an artifact/potion so your ally can have it? (Instead of killing your self so your ally can get the artifact) When we go near a MP potion, do we use it instantly, or can we safe it? If we can't save it, can we kill it? Whey aren't there hp potions? Is there a shop where we can buy MP potions?

Ohhh... I'm not too sure if this would be a problem in my map given the air units available. We will have to do some testing to find out. Thanks for pointing out this potential exploit to me.


The Mind Machine character is built on the relationship between man and machine. He is a cyborg, human in form, but composed of many computerized parts. This is different than the Artificial Intelligence unit because AI is purely machine. I am not intending to change any character names as of right now, but if I did, Mind Machine wouldn't be one of the ones I changed. My influence when designing him was a great song called "Mind Machine" that really embodies the beauty of a cyborg's relationship to his components (Even though that's not what the song's about, that's what it reminds me of.)


If you want to right a story, do it in any way that you wish. We can work together and edit it to fit the map perfectly once you get it all written down. You can see the ones for NECROMANCER and AI if you need to get a feeling of how to write it, but it doesn't have to be like either of those.



The limit for artifacts that you have one is 7. You are allowed to equip a maximum of 1 for each type of artifact. Once you have an artifact, it will always be active on your character. When you die, you drop your artifacts. Some will remain on the ground, and the rarer ones will become hidden when you die. Anyone can pick up the artifacts that you drop.

Dying is the only way to drop them, unfortunately. One exception to the way things work with artifacts is that when you play as AI you can use SELF-DESTRUCT to bring about your death, and doing this will scatter the artifacts and hide some of them instead of just dropping them.

MP Potions are used automatically when you go close enough to them. The same goes for Random Minerals. MP Potions cannot be destroyed, but they disappear after a while if nobody picks them up. All artifacts disappear if nobody picks them up fast enough. There aren't HP potions because I didn't want to have them, and there is no shop where you can buy items'/artifacts. You'll have to find them on the ground.

Ok, about the bunker freeze: If a combat unit is used to freeze the bunker, the units in the bunker will auto target that unit, and will continue to target that unit till it dies. However, turret/bunks cant target units exactly above them.This causes all ranged units in a bunker to freeze. [However, since firebats can't target air, they will attack normally.]* Since units will automatically change targets from a non-combat unit to a combat unit (if a combat unit becomes present), using a non combat unit will only freeze if other non combat untis are present. Meaning, if a dropship is used, the bunker will auto target heroes/spawn if they come in range. However, this may be a problem with the crimson wolf, when it turns into a "bat" (if bat = muta).
The unit freezing the bunker must come from the bottom/sides, not the top.
I believe workers are considered non combat. [Bunks don't retarget if the dship/shuttle/ovi used to freeze the bunker drops less than 8 workers. If 8 are dropped, they bunker retargets.]*

*Unconfirmed

Can you please add the ability to destroy artifacts and mp potions?

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Oct 3 2009, 10:39 pm by fat_flying_pigs.

Then we should have nothing to worry about.


Not only does this conflict directly with my item systems, it is also extremely pointless. For example, you can either take time out to destroy a MP potion, or just pick up the MP, even if you don't need it. Melee heroes wouldn't even be able to destroy items with a normal attack because they'd just set off the trigger to pick it up. Whenever you pick up an artifact that you already have, you get a $$ bonus. So it is never beneficial to destroy artifacts when you could gain $$ from them instead.

EDIT: Triggering Artifacts and their effects is a bitch, So i'll post another SS up for everyone's enjoyment.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Oct 3 2009, 11:45 pm by Norm.

Just read the whole topic, and it seems like this is moving nicely along, I would also like to beta test, and may write background stories for characters. I have much experience with AoS type maps (TS), and will most likely look for balancing issues, not glitches.


Things to consider.

Necromancer: Dont make him the exact counter to all hero killing strategies. Because it sucks when a summoner hides in base, gets upgs and mana due to correct micro of summons, and wins because he cant really be ganked, he just summons more while inside his base.

However, you've probably thought of this.

Artifacts appear sketchy balance wise. They're random, yes. But they shouldnt be game-deciding. Maybe give the opponent an advantage, but not so much it makes them easily able to win the game.

Also, although its random, it seems like faster chars/chars with summons will always be benifiting more from artifacts due to them being able to do things like sacrifice one minion to go and look around for artifacts at night while still farming for exp, run and grab artifacts while still farming for exp, and stuff of the like. Also, if slower chars can never get artifacts, they may lose appeal, and perhaps be unbalanced.

Also, remember that you should always have a counter aspect for everything. Like day is for night. Just so that if anyone gains a random advantage not earned in any way, theirs a disadvantage too so that its not unbalanced. Earned advantages dont require such a thing, however.

Will be easier to determine at beta time, however.

More to come, after i check out the map

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Oct 4 2009, 12:11 am by MEMEME670.

Thanks for the support. Yeah, balance issues are going to be the most difficult thing to overcome, but I've purposely set up my triggers in a way to allow for quick editing and no confusion, so I'll be able to update quickly.



Indeed I have. Necromancer gets skeletons passively when he gets kills, and skeletons have weak damage + low hp, so they are ineffective unless massed and supported by the necromancer with healing/curses. The necromancer is also able to summon 1 skeleton at a time for relatively cheap mp, BUT he is unable to summon greater skeletons in this manner, they must be passively gained. The Necromancer WILL NOT play like the summoner from TS plays. I promise.


They are not game deciding, don't worry. I have kept the effects to like, slight exp advantage, slightly higher max hp or mp, %change to get $$ for kills and stuff along those lines. Also, no summon of any kind is able to pick up artifacts. This keeps characters with summons in check from getting cheap scouts. I have attempted to keep heroes speed differences NOT TOO FAR OFF. Tassadar has an alternate form that has some speed to it. Devouring one gets a speed nerf during Day and Dusk. AI does not have vulture speed upgrade.

The only person that might seem to have a disadvantage at running for items is Rune Mage, but she can blind anyone to prevent them from seeing items (and everything else), so she's still in the game. However, artifacts will not be game-breaking, just an added advantage.


Indeed, I have quite a bit of mapping experience with games like this, so I should be able to even out all imbalances if given enough time =) So, you'll be beta testing and possible write stories? NICE! I love it man, thanks for the support.

I was thinking, to prevent fast exp gain/feeding off necro, should make the summons be slightly stronger in some way when he is nearby.

Just a suggestion.

Way ahead of you, Skeletons are worth the same amount of EXP as the weakest spawn. (1EXP). In addition, artifacts and auras that have effects that go off when kills are made have a scaling property, as in units that are worth more have a higher % chance to activate the ability than a low value unit like a skeleton.

Finally, the Necromancer has a couple options when dealing with his skeletons. For one, if he has too many and he cannot manage them all, he can sacrifice them at the altar of sacrifice to gain minerals. He can also either suicide them into enemy defenses OR use his second spell to quickly relocate the skeletons. This can even be used to help them dodge attacks if you have awesome timing.

Like I said, I promise that he won't be your typical summoner type character.

EDIT: Working on the Tutorial now. Will make it easy for noobs to read, unlike many tutorials that go by and leave anyone trying to learn saying "lolwut?" There will be a custom section in each tutorial for each character, telling you a couple of tips about them.

EDIT2: Life tracking / Character Respawn Systems are the next to get their asses kicked.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Oct 5 2009, 3:10 am by Norm.

The Illusionist

Spells:
L1 (Illusionist) Manipulate: Manipulates enemy's movement and attacks. (random junk script, ally status)
L2 (Illusionist) Power Manifest: Templar in suspended animation. Become a large Beast (Ultra).
L3 (Illusionist) Astroprojection: Conjur many clones of yourself to distract or block enemies.
L3 (Illusionist) Static Field: Sacrifice Astroprojections (Hallu clones) to stun enemies and drain MP.
L4 (Illusionist) Uroboric Form: Extremely Powerful Lightning Magic (sac clones = damage around clones)
(Beast) Recollection: Teleport to place of conjuring, can stun enemies nearby.
(Beast) Perspective: Return to your body, and gain Night-Vision for a short time.


Illusion: something that deceives by producing a false or misleading impression of reality.

The Illusionist is a creature shrouded by illusions. One can never be too sure if he is around, as they may already be caught in an illusion. When and how he was born is a mystery, as his very birth may be an illusion. One such tale of his becoming:

Deformed at birth, and abandoned at the age of 5, this child had no friends, nor home. Hungry children often refer to thievery, however, leg deformities made it impossible to steal, and then flee. The child wandered to the nearby forest to find a bush of berries. Fatigue overcame him, and he passed out; the boy soon woke in a cave. What happened then is a mystery, although it is said that a great spirit of nature helped the child, and thought him how to manipulate people's senses.
The child returned to the town, and always seems to have food, even though no one could catch him stealing. The older boys who tried to pick on him, and tease him of his deformity usually ended up stumbling on a rock, where they broke their own bones; irony. Eventually, they boy realized he needed a job to earn money, and could not continue stealing without suspicion he was using some sort of dark arts. The boy began to perform illusions for entertainment. He created what seemed to be the impossible. First, the objects he created could only be seen, but not touched. Over time, he learned to make these false images available to all 5 senses. His final step was actually creating the object out of raw energy. However, they were very fragile, and overtime these creations would fall apart. Upon reaching the age of 17, the age or maturity, the boy left the town to journey the world.

Many tried to rob the cripple, but were unsuccessful. With the power to create illusions, the Illusionist can manipulate the energies around him, often bends light around himself, to appear to be to the left or right of where he is actually standing, causing opponents to attack air. Although not good at attacking, the Illusionist is good at stalling his opponents, giving himself time to run, or perhaps counter attack if his opponent is weak. Although weak physically, the Illusionist is strong mentally and spiritually. By gathering this unseen energy, he can make an illusion reality, then possessing that creature. By taking the form of a beast, the Illusionist gains strong physical abilities and speed. Through this, he balances his abilities between physical, and magical - strong and fast as a beast, and sneaky and shifty as the Illusionist. As the beast, he can [beast spells here]. And as the Illusionist, he can create copies of himself. These copies can roam around free, deceiving his foes. At anytime, the Illusionist can cause the energy in his copies to overwhelm his foes. Most times, this energy is used to bind his foes, creating imaginary chains around them. However, the Illusionist can channel an excess of energy to his clones, overloading them – forcing them to their natural form of raw energy which explodes doing massive damage to anything nearby.