I'm not sure you can reset kills. You would have to use a trigger duplicator if you can't. Read the wiki link I posted.

It's not Perfect K2C, its the individual reward one. And no one pro uses staredit AFAIK, most use SCMDraft.

EDIT
You can't reset kills, so you would have to use a trigger duplicator and make heaps of triggers. Even then, if you played a 5 hour game then you would break it eventually. But it's the best system apart from the amount of triggers required.

random news 1.4m3.1 w/e found glitches where do I report them?

1. code named LOLRINE is really messed up. 5 gas per mine on capping well thats alot of gas... anyone wanna try that with lvl4 then charge up lvl4 and hit someone with it. Its nasty.... XD
2. Marines buildings cost minerals n not gas 100 supply 75 turret 100 bunker
thats all I know right about now if this doesnt belong someone direct me or post this news on that thread

Where did m3.1 come from anyway?

It's a fixed m3 version that CAFG made. He made all of the spells the same as the ones in m3, changed the rine to 7+3 ( i think ), changed mine capping and changed Assims (at least that's all I know)

sims are fine but the changes are not really set right he needs to check this D:

If you want to adopt a superior kills 2 cash system, I could tell you the one I am using for my AoS ><. It works well with splash, and TS's spawn units have the perfect amount of killscore units that in the rare chance that my system doesn't handle the exp right, the exp gain difference would only be whatever amount a single unit is worth, so not a big deal.

OK tell us please.

and now firebats wont carpet bomb but he drops invic vults joy of new verisons!

Ok, I'm too lazy to type it all out + I don't want another AoS to have my system effortlessly, so I'll just say that you have to combine custom score binary countoffs with multiple killscore conditions per enemy. You can combine enemy killscores into anticipated splash yields to increase accuracy, and it is fully customizable with added effects for kills, special kills (You can handle all the hero killing with (TS would take 39 almost-identical triggers - my AoS requires ~50 for this part). You can even progressively scale the killscore rewards quite easily by just copying the trigger for each period you would want to differentiate and changing one condition. (For example, you can make broodlings worth .2 EXP during day one, and worth .1 EXP during day two...)

I never said no hp ups and no i'm not trying to create situations that benefit the special ops at all. Good players don't become hp whores. They generally will get a few hp and mostly focus on spells and mana as this is there main source of dmg. It only makes sence that someone upgrade there spells so they become more powerful and are used more often.

Players don't heal every second. This would be quite dumb. Therefore it is quite easy for a fast unit to attack lose hp and then go heal especially if near base. Fast units will be able to return and pound out life especially if they are doing enough DPS. Players will often switch it up or gang up on other players trying to kill as well. Regardless if the hero has less current hp than you he will most likely die. If not you can always give it a run at it.

Personally i've never been killed by a cannon either and the most health upgrades i get is 3 unless i have nothing else worth upgrading. Just because you have low health doesn't mean you can't kill cannons. Now maybe if the new cannons do regenerate much faster this may happen for some characters that don't have health.


completely correct but then again if it isn't 1v1 it isnt really a counter. Counter's are battles the unit should almost always win 1v1. Not saying the counter can't win 2v2 but his chances are less likely because it is now more of a strategic battle because spells can be combo'd by different players for great effects.


Never said anything about vultures l2 killing all i said is you took away all my spells except l2 because they have tanks and then said hydra counters. exact phrasing " Hydra counters/wins if mech doesn't use tanks or l4".

Hmmm if he precasts since i'm a fast unit ill just run away and stay out of range till it ends. If he continues to do this i will catch him because eventually he will have wasted all his mana being an idiot. If i know he precasts and he is actually ok at it i can use this to trick him rush in and have him waste mana as well.

This also means i can run away at very begining of the spell. It would be wiser for him to l1 as it targets much faster.

Um why? anything except for a stun that completely surronds the mech he can transform and walk away from. As far as i'm aware not even l4 does this in m7. It still gives the mech some ability to walk arround. Even if it doesn't all i need to do is transform twice. once to mech or tank which ever i want atm and the other back to vulture and not only am i free but i'm going to be alive because i can run away. If the fool chases me he will most likely die because he ran into my dmgers and then past them. If he runs then he prolly gained some mana on me and i will most likely not try again for a bit. Either way i will try to get my timing better and see if he dies next time.

Good players don't become HP whores is just fine, but there's a difference. Once you've maxed mana and gotten all your spells you will be picking up Health.

I played LM today against Mut / Warrior / Archer. Unfortunately both my team mates died from them. One of them was a Spec Ops picking up HP upgrades. Now, I have no idea how this Spec Ops with over 2k health died against a Mut using L2. That's amazing to me. The problem here isn't that he picked up HP. It's that he picked up HP and he still died. Then again, I'm fighting against a Warrior, a Mut and an Archer and I've got no HP ups and I only managed to die one time. That's after I killed the Archer twice on his last two lives and the Mut once, ran completely out of mana and was cornered finally by the Warrior. None of these guys we're bad players either.

This Spec Ops going HP, had one life left, and decided it was better for him to risk it early on trying to kill a Mut. I wonder now if he went damage that he might have been able to kill him? I don't really know. But, the fact of the matter is that he didn't. He couldn't do it with 2k health because he was standing in the front of mid base when we captured it exping and the Mut could just run back and forth and heal constantly while exping in front of him. Eventually killing the Spec Ops.

If you decide it's not important to heal every 10 seconds when you're being worn down by an opponent who's faster and more dangerous than you are, then you're not playing well. Spec Ops with +4 damage might seem a lot more threatening by that logic. But, the fact of the matter is it's not nearly as threatening as being able to bring someone from 2k health to 0 on 1st night. Spec Ops can't do that. From one game to another if he's going spam DMG or HP on round one, whether I'm fighting against him with LM, or Med, or he's on my team, he's going to lose.

I can kill an LM with a Med by running into his base behind him if the entire map is simmed, 'and' I own all three bases, 'and' he has no HP ups, 'and' an Assault is constantly draining his mana. 'and' I have FH. That does work. A Spec Ops can't do that. Not unless he's throwing every bit of his levels into HP and he's got someone simming for him. That's gotta be around 12 HP ups compared with a Med's FH and at +30 ups on Med from Sims with stim he couldn't have failed where I succeeded. Then again, my Assault had no HP ups and was on his last life, and he decided it was important to chase around the LM who had a nice 200 mana pool with reavers trying to test his luck. Without FH on him I wouldn't have won that game.

Ironically, my other opponent was a Spec Ops who went DMG, thinking he could burn me down. I got all three bases using meds after killing the LM and Spec Ops once each and chasing down the LM a 2nd time. If that Spec Ops had a brain in his skull he wouldn't have gone DMG. My team mate got killed twice because of that. Then again, even if he hadn't died and the Spec Ops had simply ignored him and Exped, he could have just taken over the whole map using L4, crushed our sims, taken our bases, and countered absolutely anything we could throw at him.

This is the difference between a good player and a bad player. "But!", it marks the difference between the advantages of each class. Spec Ops can't go DMG or HP on round one if he expects to survive in the long run. True for almost any class. I know this having gone 2v1 against Assault and Summoner after my team mate died. If I didn't get L4 early I couldn't have bought those four reaver factories and killed their base. The Assault was no genius. He went HP instead of getting his L2/L3 to kill the reavers and destroy the factories. BUT! He didn't die. He kept his base protected from four reaver factories through round 3 and 4.

Ultimately, +4 damage on a Spec Ops is about as threatening as a Med with +5 damage. It's really not as bad as you think it is. Compare this with a Spec Ops who gets L4 and pumps his damage up to 130 and finally destroys an opponents base and then there's a marked difference. What pissed me off about it was that the Spec Ops biggest concern by this point in the game is destroying the base and yet his only real damage is auto attack with stim and +3 damage. That's nothing in the long run. When it takes you 2 full rounds to bring that down, after you've captured the whole map, and spammed reavers, that's depressing.

Well, that's my experience with Spec Ops. In 90% of the games I've played Spec Ops damage has rarely been a threat compared with using his L4. The main issue being that he lacked the burst damage even after going pure DMG. Whether it's 40, 80, 130, or 170 damage, the Spec Ops as he scales and becomes stronger is never going to be able to deal serious damage through auto attack. 8 Reavers and me with 130 damage pounding on an Assault who rushes into them with FH and he didn't die one time.

What amazes me is the group of people who believed he needed to be weaker in damage when his L4 was clearly what was the game winning factor. Being able to take control of the map early on only speeds up the process. A +2 Spec Ops just means you take twice as long to burn a base after you've won than +4 Spec Ops. The damage is actually quite low either way.

As far as Mech Vs. Archer goes, I do agree with your assessment overall. The only issue being that Archer and Mech are pretty even when it comes to their HKho abilities, while the Archer still has a Hydra pack and a base. The Archer may not be able to bring the Mech down, but he still has more presence on the map as long as he uses all his abilities. That may not be a counter, but it's certainly every reason to pick Archer if you're fighting against a Mech. Not including round 1 rush.

+3 spec ops with stim: if you give him bases, you lose in the long run. If you don't give him bases, you die trying to fight him with too low life. If he's on a competent team, he'll probably have DM/Assassin/Volt for stun support and then you can really see how much DPS a marine can do.

No one good got his L4 when it was +3, that's 12 civilians (420 minerals) just to be able to use it it. If you want tourney reps, I can show you how easily it crushed good players. Every game in the MT tourney that SEN hosted that I watched was won by whichever team had Spec Ops. In the finals I didn't even want to play as the South team because I knew it would be rushed for, and the other team knew it too and refused to switch: that's how broken Spec Ops is at +3, and that was before it got usable spells 2 and 3. The L4 was a complete non-factor because anyone semi-decent went Tank.

Removing stim would make the character boring and completely change its earlygame power: no one would want to play it, and anyone who did would just sit near cannons until he could afford stim, then dominate everyone as the game went on. It would also lead to absolutely no one getting his spells, because your upgrades don't scale as high.

5+3 or something along those lines might work, but even still that's a break even point of 10 upgrades, which any decent player has after about 15 minutes.

Let's do some math:

To get 45 damage+stim on the current marine (15+2) you need 15 upgrades. 10+12+...+38= 360 minerals
To get 45 damage+stim on the old marine (9+3) you need 12 upgrades. 10+12+...+32= 252 minerals
To get 45 damage+stim on your marine (9+4) you need 9 upgrades. 10+12+...+26=162+120 for stim= 282 minerals

And your marine's next upgrade only costs 28. The +3 Marine was BROKEN as a tank and anyone decent knew it. You're proposing to make him even better at it, because all of his next upgrades are cheaper AND give him more damage, and you think the fact that he's complete trash for 20 minutes makes up for it. They're trying to balance the heroes, not skew them towards lategame.


But forget all of that: this alone tells me you have no idea what late-game upgrade scaling means to Temple Siege, or how much DPS a marine actually puts out:


Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Feb 24 2023, 12:31 pm by Decency.

At 45 damage, stimmed rines do 114 damage per second(DPS)

Sorry, I got confused here. You're talking about the Spec Ops going HP then. You're idea here is because the Spec Ops does the (2nd to Mut) most base damage that by pumping HP early it makes him effective?

I've seen this, don't get me wrong, it's really scary if you have no stun+HKo early on. Especially if you don't have Mut or at least a LM. Someone that can bring him down from FH>0 that quick. Basically the idea is he's supposed to be a Sim stomper and base capturer. Pressure your opponents a bunch all game with him. I've seen this happen, yeah it's pretty lame. And hard to counter. You play defensively during the day, and keep out of any deadly stuns, while constantly hitting people's defenses etc.

It's a great strat, I totally see that. He still has pretty lame damage though. I proposed that he had to spend 120 minerals on stim after building an academy with his L2. Without an early game rush this whole strategy is meaningless. He can't pressure early on and disable sims. He doesn't have extra levels from base captures or early kills on round one without stim. The idea of having +4 damage instead of +3 is simply because he's not really a threat against someone with high health. By the end of round 3 when everyone has gotten to at least 50% health on an average of 2k health 100 damage alone isn't likely to bring someone down when you can run away without the risk of a stun.

Imagine if Warrior had +12 damage and no L2/L3. I'm sure it sounds really amazing, when you get passed round 2/3 you realize pretty quickly it's not that great. It really on depends on the match up. If you've got a Volt, well that Spec Ops better pray someone isn't ready to Hko when he gets caught in a stun spam. If you've got a Summoner you can probably hold your bases well enough and threaten the Spec Ops with a swarm+ling rush. If you have a DM it's Mael spam, and I don't remember a game I played where the Spec Ops is going home happy from what happens next.

I can understand your viewpoint. Yeah it sucks, but it sucks in a bad matchup. If it's a bad matchup then you may as well not play. If all you've got is Med/LM/Assault chances are you're going to find it difficult to block this guy. Which makes me wonder why you would want to keep stim for the first 20 minutes where it's actually game changing at the cost of increasing his dmg up by 1. That still sounds stupidly low no matter how I think about it. 1/2 for Summoner's lings is a lot when it's the difference between 50/100% of your damage.

Scaling does go beyond round 2 dude. When you're fighting against a Summoner or someone with FH and you don't have someone with some absurd HKo ability the damage does factor in there.

Minus armor. As much as I hate WoW PvP, it brings up a point about PvP here. DPS doesn't mean anything if you're not holding still bashing something to death. People are moving and defending themselves and putting you at as much risk as them.

Post has been edited 4 time(s), last time on Sep 24 2009, 9:41 am by Crackhead.

The game term 'tank' refers to units 'built like tanks'. Basically strong units.

I think he's mentioning the version where the Spec Ops could build tanks. Not sure actually. But he was talking about Tank Vs. L4.

Edit: Actually, upon reviewing that he's talking about HP Spec Ops.

He said 'marine was broken as A tank', therefore it is the marine that is the tank. Marine with +3 as a tank(e.g. Lotsa atk and hp ups) is pwn. 114 DPS after needing only 9 ups and the stim up is OP. EVEN WITH 10 ODD ARMOUR, marine can solo kill something like 1500 dmg against any unit in 17 seconds. A 17 second stun isn't hard, and chances are, the stunner will join in the battle.

Eh... Archer, Mut, Warrior, LM, are all capable of putting out this damage. if it's a stun war then it's a stun war. A med can down someone with stupidly low health(LM) if they're stunned for 17 seconds. Which by the way, I don't see that happening really often. Worse still if they're stunned for that long you may as well bring another stunner along and keep it going. Volt can keep a stun going for a damn long time. So can DM with full energy from DA+Ensnare and 25 mana(Cheap, but funny).

The idea here is obviously, the Spec OPs is OP with high base damage because he doesn't need to spend mana. With high health he can just pressure people constantly. 17 Seconds on the Spec Ops with someone who can bring him down several times quicker isn't balanced because they don't have the level of resistance he has balanced with his damage and mobility.

It's not that I feel like you guys are wrong here. It's that changing that so he's worse off earlier when that's where he has his biggest advantage seems to be the wrong answer to you guys as apposed to make him deal less damage, which means he's less likely to be able to pressure early AND later because it takes him too long to destroy Sims, Defenses, etc, regardless.

A +2 Spec Ops wasn't very competitive apparently, it doesn't mean anything to me, since I use L4 anyway. But, this being a problem pushed him up to +3 where apparently this is OP. Stim is the highest damage booster here. At a cost of 120 minerals and L2 without having this to bring him to the point where he can obtain it easily is as much as I can discuss this being an effective solution.

Warrior and Mutant can. They are also both melee, and Warrior is doubly affected by armor. Clearly you also don't understand damage types, Hydra can't even come close to putting out that much damage except vs. Mech.

Giving Stim a price just makes the marine terrible early game, it won't do a thing to hamper him lategame. The +3 Marine was broken as hell once midgame hit; a +4 marine would be even worse.

faz hes talking about spells not just the base units lol. *sidenote* technically doesn't cost 387 but it usues 3 civs because he must get l2 in order to stim. This cuts on hp at the least and maybe some dmg as well depending on what exactly he uses civs for.


btw the guy getting hp as rine was not very smart if he died to a ling's l2. Granted it can happen but that much hp it shouldn't happen. The ling can trap but unless he keeps you from going absolutely nowhere that shouldn't happen. The other guy going dmg should have taken out sims. He should have also exped while Pking. Playing against medic he has to make sure nothing gets too far out of hand as it most certainly will when the medic gets l4.


as for your hydra i would like to see how you play with him. i believe moose and unholy have mentioned how little they see L3 use. I have seen it much more in 1.5 as it is easier to move from L2 to L3 with 2 drones for 50 than just 1. If you have a replay i'd love to see it. thnx

Btw what version are you playing? the current version m7 has rine at +2.