If you're an atheist, answer this for me. It's been bothering for almost fifteen hours now.

Atheists do not believe that there is some almighty being guiding them around with a predeclared fate waiting to fall on them, right?

Many atheists believe that evolution, not creationism, is what created humans the way they are today (notice the qualifier many.)

Evolution, as far as natural selection is concerned, is determined through genetic mutations that either cause you to die or survive better.

Genetics are passed down from your parents without any say of what you want them to be.

Thus, isn't your fate already decided?

If you have a genetic mutation that means you have Downs Syndrome for the rest of your life, how could you possibly stop it?

I believe there are two components to success: effort and ability. Effort is what you can put into something, and ability is the predetermined capabilities. You can't change ability, but you can change your effort. You won't know your potential unless you try.

How is this connected to Atheism at all?

Getting Downs Syndrome isn't "Fate". It's called "Being born as a person with Downs Syndrome."

How could god possibly stop it if you had Downs Syndrome?

Fate =/= genetics. I mean if we're talking on a scale greater than a single life, like an entire family and its medical history/tendencies, then in a way, yes there are certain determinations/conclusions you could come to. However fate generally is used on a scale of a single life.

Although I'm an atheist, I like to believe that there are things we don't have the answer to right now in relation to evolution and such, hence why there are so many arguments/questions left at this time.

I think what he is saying... is how do you prove thats fate or just a conwincidence.
This is somthing that we can't ever prove unfortunately, because you can never know if your life is planned out before you because once you die... or somthing happens there is no way to prove that its fate or not...
Its just somthing we have to live with some people will believe in it or not... I don't think this has anything to do wttih atheism though.. Atheists can believe in fate too.
Fate does not = a religion matter its just a way to believe how your life is planned out.

Also, who gave you the right to put value on what people call "Life"? Why would your "Fate" matter? The only reason we are alive is to duplicate DNA and prolong it's lifespan. "Living" beings with "Fates"? It's a joke. We're all vessels being used by a parasitic entity known as DNA. It's extremely similar as to how a small Virus utilizes an animal cell to duplicate itself - just on a much larger level.

but some can argue that, thats our fate...
Humans are sooooo far from knowing anything about life its not even funny.
We could all be genetic experiments for all we know, and if thats true this is our fate. We get a few smart humans that get outside the mold but for most of us we are either a slave to gentic coding, or God, or somthing else.
This could be concidered fate because humans don't pick the people that are smart, gentics do. ( somthing picks out our future for us)
Thus we have no control of our bodies, do you think einstein would of been smart even if he was born with a normal brain, No gentics picked that out for us but his parants were geniuses like he was...??
The saying you can do anything if you set your mind to it is jack shit... Because the truth is there are people that are born with more advantages then others.
destiny: an event (or a course of events) that will inevitably happen in the future

Our gentics follow us in a pattern, we have the norm and then a select few get to set our curve for the next generation.
How do we prove thats not our fate... It sure kinda looks like it is?

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Sep 3 2009, 5:10 pm by Ashamed.

I don't believe in anything, because no one was around to watch it happen. So its all just guesses

You can't prove anything. Theres no actual proof for either side of the argument, god or evolution.

Its all up to the person to trust whatever explination they want. But in the end none of it is 100% for sure.

I don't really like thinking about things that the human mind can't even comprehend. "how were we created" is something I don't think will ever have one answer.

If religion was worth believing in, there wouldn't be so many of them. Clearly religion is a man made explination for something that we can't really ever understand.

I mean, you are basically just taking a guess at which religion is the right one. How could god have spoken to a mormon and told him one thing and then spoken to a christian, and told him something different.

God must be a liar or something...

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Sep 3 2009, 5:37 pm by FlamingInferno.

Who gave you the right to imply that she shouldn't? Who gave anyone the right to do anything? I was unaware that DNA was sentient and had malicious intent. You quote "Living" as if it is an illusion; living is merely word defining our particular and other organism's state: "manifesting growth through metabolism, reproduction, and the power of adaptation to environment through changes originating internally"

Your post fails so hard it's difficult for me to overstate it.

That's like saying that the scene two witnesses tell differently must be lying; while in reality either one or both of the witnesses are lying.

I'm just glad I live in a place where no one can tell me what to believe

This is kinda becoming a "Bash religion post"
which i don't think it was intended to become.
This is about fate...

but i agree with Kaias

If we do have a God and "Fate" Its not God who lied it was us, humans all have differnt perspectives on life... everyone.

But as of me I don't believe in "Fate" per say
but I do believe that humans have no control of their lifes..
As gump said it "Shit happens" is this fate I don't know but what i do know its something we can never prove... unless we can go back and forward in time, but thats a whole differnt subject.

I agree, that is one thing I like about my family.

The philosophical position which Kame has described is biological/genetic determinism, and is not at all incompatible with Atheism.

It is simply the thesis that all of a person's actions are already decided by their genetic and biological makeup. Behind this way of thinking we have the belief that some people are born criminals or born evil etc.

There are many different forms of determinism - theological determinism being the particular flavour that many religious people believe. In essence, all types of determinism believe that our future actions are determined (at least partially) by factors outside our control. In other words there is no such thing as free will, which could simply be an illusion; a defence mechanism to keep us sane.

However determinism deals with inevitability, not fate. Fate is a specific concept which is pretty much incompatible with determinism.

See http://www.manitowoc.uwc.edu/staff/awhite/freewill.htm for a discussion on determinism vs. fate.

lol your family can't tell you what to believe in... You have the freedom of choice, nothing to do with your family only to do with the country you live in.

they don't try to force it on you. You know what I mean't

Perhaps a better question.... Is natural selection best in determinism? Can atheism and determinism coexist in a singular perspective?

Wrong.

Atheists believe there is no almighty being. Nothing about being an atheist precludes the ability to believe in fate.

Yes, there's no such thing as random chance. The entire Universe has seeded values and follows measurable laws in its progress. It simply appears random because of its complexity. (See Chaos theory for details.)

Are you certain? Fate implies design; inevitability implies circumstance.