Well, he found a way to make it work already, with the Phantom.

Snap I forgot about that. Unholy how did you do the hallu detection?

Ez.. there're 5 ghosts in SC..

does that answer your question?

..
On the same note, it may possible with the LM using hallu = casting a spell on the hero that has been hallu'ed. This is due to the fact that the LM would not control any of those hero units...
Then again I still don't see how it could be triggered.. I'd have to ask sm1... Cause I've seen it work before
Psst, Yam, it's your turn to shine

Yes but you can't detect hallus with triggers can you?

maybe the trigger doesn't look for hallucinations specifically but rather all incarnations of the unit and it simply respawns them without the hallucination property?

to date i have never played phantom ... is it fun and whats a typical build people use?

I toss my first few civs into Minerals for upgrades, Phantom does awesome damage to small units so I upgrade attack a lot. Once I get enough ups to one-shot spawns, I go for my Level 2 and start getting mana. Level 2 is awesome, you can avoid a lot of spells with it and I use it a lot. I up mana to 140, then I consider the enemy team. If they're slow, I get my Level 3 spell to drag them into cannons, if they're fast I keep going mana. Once I have over 200 mana I get my Level 4, then keep going mana until 300. Along the way the whole while, I'll toss another civ into Minerals now and then, unless we have Assimilators.

Phantom is a lot of fun to play, he can confuse and disorient enemies, and if you can perfect your timing, his Level 2 spells lets you avoid a shitload of spells. Most of the Warrior, Mutant and Light Mage spells can be avoided, or partially avoided, two casts can avoid the Mech's L4, you can avoid pretty much all of the Dark Mage's spells thanks to their lag, if you anticipate it coming you can avoid enemy stuns....it kicks ass. But as I said, you have to time it right, otherwise you'll reappear too soon and be hit. And since the Phantom doesn't have the best HP or speed, you need to conserve his health, and L2 is awesome for that. You also need to be wary of large units for obvious reasons, but once you get Level 4 and enough attack ups, you can take them on and send them running, maybe even kill them. Later in the game, I find I have like, 15-20 attack upgrades and my Phantom shot does 400-500 damage, so small units run from me a lot.

For Phantom, that's the three core ideas I use - lots of attack upgrades, lot of mana, spam Level 2 to avoid spells and snipe enemies.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Aug 14 2009, 7:31 am by DrakeClawfang.

how do you dodge with l2? it's invinci for the duration?

Exactly. And it does 230+15 damage, so it's a dodge and a powerful snipe.

well actually it gets moved off the map and a high powered invincible replacement comes in for short time. This also allows you to dodge spells such as disable, curses, stuns, ect. since they don't actually affect anything since the phantom isn't in the area.

Level 3 is good too, but I have trouble using it. It sends out a Scourge that hooks onto enemy units, letting you move them. If you're good at controlling it, you can pull slower units into cannons, but faster units can escape it or dodge it. I also find that it works as a stun too, since the Scourge stops them from moving you can just park it over an enemy to immobilize them for the spell's duration.

As for Level 2, let me list the spells it can dodge, IMO

Easy to Dodge
Mutant's L2, L3
Warrior's L2
Light Mage's L2, L1
Marine's L1, L3
Mech's L1, L3
Volt's L1, L3
Dark Mage's L2, L3, L4, and Maelstrom from Dark Orb
Archer's L1
Assassin's L4
Medic's L2

Though it's harder, you can also dodge the Mech's L4, the Warrior's L3 and the Assassin's L2.

That's a lot of spells you can avoid, huh? It's why I love the Phantom. The only attack spell I think he can't avoid is the Mech's Rail Gun. Well, technically he can, but Rail Gun lasts so long you'd need to use the spell several times.

Post has been edited 3 time(s), last time on Aug 14 2009, 3:59 pm by DrakeClawfang.

Almost correct

If u look carefully, it spawns Nuclear Ghosts over your hallus...

Again, Something that I didn't really anticipate.. .Another grand emergent gameplay Lawls
(I feel a bit dumb now.. I didn't anticipate mine capping.. and now this :C.. am I dumb or what?? >=P)

I might have to do a post-spell effect (kinda like LM's L1) if it gets too OP. But that's yet to be seen.

Wait so you CAN detect hallus with triggers? Just not whether they are hallus? So a hallu of a marine is triggered as a norml marine by Bring triggers for example? If so, a hallu spell for LM would be easy.

No. Hallus do not trigger either Bring or Command. However, you can sort of figure out where a hallu is by Giving all units to a different player: Hallus can't be Given for some reason.

So lets say red is LM. Lm fires some hallusat oj, and activates his Halluboom spell. All reds units are given to another player, or moved somewherd and given, and then a center location on any unit owned by p1 is used, then all units at said loc owned by p1 are removed, ???, and profit? Something like that?

As awesome as Phantom Shot is, I do have to agree it's OP in terms of evasion. A post-spell delay would help balance it out, and make timing more difficult.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I never thought Mine-capping was a problem. Medic can cap with Nature Spirits, Summoner can cap with Goblins, Dark Mage can cap with Dark Orb. The only problem I had with Mine-capping was that the Level 4 mines were invincible and you could send them in from anywhere. That I thought was cheap, but mine-capping with Level 1 mines, I never got the problem.

The thing is, some characters have a harder time capping then others, (Medic vs. Mech, Summoner vs Volt... no contest )
And so they need an easier way to capture warp gates. Whenever I play medic, I find it epic when I beat a hydra or goon (never mech ) in the opening rush, my medics can heal me while I slowly wear down my opponent. If they retreat back into their incoming spawn, then I leave the medic to capture the warp gate while I block my opponent from getting to it. If he trys to kill the medic, then I micro it around so he gets trapped in the spawn, all the while I'm shooting at him. If he doesn't kill the medic then I'm gaining hp as they are attacking me so it really turns out to be a situation where I ask this question: "When will my opponent give up?"
The same basic principle goes for the Dark Mage and the Dark Orb. Although I'm not sure about Assaults mines though.

New idea: Disable mine-capping and add a mine for lvl 1 as assault. 3 mines with no mine capping isn't THAT useful (though still is!).

I finally got some playtime with phantom and it's quite fun. except when people go mech, fuck mechs. LM is fun though, i dodged an lm's l2 and sniped him in the face, it felt good.

i got to play ling quite a bit today, i noticed a wierd glitch with my l3 when a lm on my team used his final. evidently, whenever i l3'd and my teammate used final at the same time, his would glitch and summon 1 wave of 3 reavers at my location on top of my lurkers. this made for an interesting potential combo attack using lurker damage and splash with reaver damage and splash, but it also makes for a dangerous mistake since he could have easily killed me wih the splash had i been fighting. he couldn't l4 cuz i was spamming my l3 so much and i didn't wanna die and we were at different locations so spawning reavers on my wasn't helping him.

also, i was just in a game with a really gay engineer. he went for sci vess and made about 6 of them. he then flew them down the map to the bottom left where the summon units are and used irradiate to kill the dormant archer companions and nuclear ghosts. he would repeat whenever they respawned and got massive exp that way. he was at about 400 and the rest of us were around 500 and in a matter of about half a night he had over taken us. since we won all the lines we simmed half the map but with the exp boost he had more upgrades than me and tons of hp. we won anyway cuz my team worked together well and gaked his cheap ass but it was annoying. whats worse is that after he was elim'd his sci vessals down at the bottom stayed there and became invincible, so he flew them back to the battle field and started emping and irradiating.

When I was talking about the vortex spell, I meant for it to only move the sucked up spawns and summons to the box, that way the psion would get move kills. After the spell was over, all units remaining in the box would be removed, so the psion wouldn't feed to easily with l3.

For Archer, I was think that the camps are still widely unused, and becomes almost worthless in the late game due to highly powerful heroes. I was thinking of a few options for it...

Since you can't upgrade a sunken colony's attack the building will be replaced. Whenever your build a creep colony, it automatically gives it to the allied computer. All of the creep colonies will be given back to you, and one-by-one the colonies will be given back to the comp, centering a location on each colony and creating a muttalisk hero above it to attack once. Basically, a location cycles through each creep colony so that a muttalisk shoots above each one, repeatedly. This would allow for a colony with upgrades. Also, spore colonies could be stronger versions of it as well (For use in later game, but costs high in mana) Hatcheries could fire guardians. Of course there would need to be a colony cap so that there isn't too much lag time between muttalisks spawning. Alternatively, you could center lurkers instead of muttalisks.

A completely different spell would be a fire-based spell. (matches with the burning arrows and fire stuff)
l3 - Blazing Inferno - Creates 8 lurkers around your Archer, with one mine (or burrowed-unit) under your archer. The lurkers attack the burrowed unit under you (while you ally all enemy heroes for a second so lurkers definitely hit the burrowed unit). A few science vessels are constantly killed above the Archer to detect the burrowed unit, as well as simulate fire effects. Enemies within the nearby location are "Burning" - they are slightly slowed down (about half as slow as the usually slowing spells), they initially lose 50 mana, and mana gain is slowed for 8-10 seconds (fire effects for burning).

The lurkers of this spell differ from lurkers of mutant's lurkers because,
These lurkers attack instantly rather than a warm-up effect.
Mutant has a lot more lurkers than 8. (forgot how many)
Archer's lurks attack toward the archer and therefore have less range, and less lurks hitting the enemy.

I chose this particular style of mana drain and slowing because, slowly draining mana would allow the target to cast spells before their mana was drained, but I didn't want too much mana drained initially like volt's l3. The slight mana drain and slowing, as well as lurk dmg, should make the target want to run, while the slowing part allows the archer to follow the enemy and continually launch arrows at him/her.
If this happens, archer companions could be weakened and moved to l2.

Yeah, that kicks ass huh?


I hate jackasses like that. Be thankful cheating pricks like him are rare. Stopping that sort of thing should be easy though.