With 1000 exp, you could easily kill any amount of cannons with l3 lurks.

Read his post again. H was the warrior not the mutant. The only way he will be killing cannons is if the mutant is trying to chase him with his l3 spell.


Honestly you should never kill the gates unless your ready for the consquences. Its often far better to focus on temple and leave cannons and gates standing. This is especially true for a warrior. Also The mutant himself can just be a pain in the ass. The warrior is one of the few that can power thru him though. Mainly need to avoid his attacks and youll be fine.

As for the cannon problem this is why you need spells. L4 completely obliterates cannon firebecause it absorbs so much dmg. This is why i play the shields/spell warrior vs the hp armor warrior. It is much more effective in my eyes plus you can use spell 3 for a nice stun trap and l2 much more often.

Because you can build cannons pretty much anywhere, that kind of trigger would be hard to make, and therefore "not gonna happen."
Besides, would you really like to change the game just because you were angry in one match?

The last game of Temple Siege I played, was, I think, the most perfect game I had ever played. I was medic, teammates were Hydra(MUTA SPAMMER FTW ) and Spec Ops. (1.4M7) During the opening rush, I went for the top and the enemy mutant (Mutant vs Medic. I win. Hehe.) went up there to try and stop me. I Killed him 'cause he was trapped by spawn, but apparently that was not enough. He came back for more and managed to stop me from capping. I had 2 medics out and he went for them, but I microd them and killed him again. Lol.
During that, my Marine teammate killed the assassin who went to the middle (in 1.4m7 there is a 1sec delay in Escape) and captured it, my Hydra teammate killed the dark mage (somehow ) and captured the bottom. I was about to capture the top when the mutant (You'd think he would learn by now ) came back a third time. And he brought his friends the dark mage & assassin with him.
They surrounded me, and killed me, but before I died... the last shot I fired killed the mutant. Again. I can only imagine what he was thinking...
When I killed him the 3rd time I had l3 by then.
Then my teammates surrounded the dark mage & assassin, and Killed the dark mage! The assassin actually abandoned his teammate before the fighting started.
A few minutes later in the game I killed the assassin 2x with Medictrapping + Disable. The dark mage then called us noobs and left.

Man I love this game.

To Killer_sss

He spammed the cannons around his temple, there were about 20+ cannons and 10 Pylons. Even with L4 and 20 def, I couldn't reach in and kill all the pylons because the cannons would rip through my shield and hp before the spell could react the way it should be. On top of all those turrets, I have mutant waiting for me to run out of hp/l4. His L3 did 120+ per hit. I thought that killing the gates would be good because he kept feeding off his own units.

To Oli
I would just change that part because Imo, that is extremely cheap and abusive.

Lol wow thats pretty awesome, your game. My favorite game...well kill was when I was Assault and I went against Archer. The archer microed my butt but we managed to get both of our hp down pretty low. We were close to bottom and as I ran away I spawned a sci vessel. he started retreating too so I used irradiate on him. His spawned blocked his way to the temple. Right out of the pure blue sky, it said that he died and I started to LOL.

Off topic. As a Assault/Eng. is it ok to go civ 3 mins / 1 hp at the beginning? I always do that because it makes capping/ stalling easier.

yea well i understand then but then more you can pump shields all the better. Its so valuable. I will tell u my lil expierence with dmg though. The lings l2 with even ups i can withstand about 3-4full hits before i need to move. Yes thats just standing still.

The key is to keep your opponent from spaming cannons but regardless it shouldnt have been that bad since they are 40 or 60 a pop(i forget). He either wasnt using his minerals or you waited too long. You should be able to take enough dmg to go pylon hunting or something. Also if you can try to use your l2 for killing cannons.

regardless, if you still somehow happened to find your self on the losing side with all this here is one thing to remember: never kill the gates against a mutant unless hes outnumber with heros. The mutant is just too good a feeder. You need to constantly make sure he isnt setting up cannons and you need to beat on his base. Honestly what ive found working the best is running in with warrior and having the mutant chase you and try and l3 you. If he hits he will also hit his temple.

To Killer_sss

Mhmm kk. I did have a second teammate, volt no hp fail final but full ups. I thought he knew how to use l2 but He didnt so I just focused on base clearing. The Mutant was smart enough to not attack because his l3 was practically enough to wipe his own defenses away. I'm over the game, a good nights rest helped. I just felt that the cannons are extremely unfair when abused in some cases. Imo, they should at least put a limit of cannons around a base.

Maybe not around the base, but a limit of cannons for your computer. Of course, that may be hard to balance due to capturing outposts (gives control of cannons from white-yellow vice versa)

Or, how about we forget about this because cannon spamming rarely happens

Edit: Major typo I had to fix

Gonna pitch another half-assed hero idea. We were talking about the Vulture earlier, well, here goes.

Shadow Rider

The Shadow Rider was once a normal worshipper of the Temple, until his experimentations with the darker aspects of its power pulled him into another dimension. No one is quite sure how he managed to find his way back to the Temple. Now riding a machine fueled by unknown magics, he takes power from darkness itself and has returned to finish his dark experiments with the powers of the Temple, no matter the cost.

Stats:
Unit: Vulture
3800 HP, 1 Armor, 29+4 damage (may need to be tweaked)
Niche - Disorienting foes at night, and using sneak attacks. Spells are strong at night but weak during the day.

Spell 1 - Smoke Bomb - Lays a mine that explodes in a cloud of blinding gases when triggered by an opponent. Disables an opponent's allied sight with his teammates and p7/p7 for a short time. If affected during the day, disables allied sight with all other players.
Spell 2 - Shadow Rift - Spawns a Scourge that the player can move. When the Scourge expires, the Shadow Rider teleports to where the Scourge was. However, this is only temporary, and after a period of time the Shadow Rider warps back to where he originally was. Can only be used at night.
Spell 3 - Twilight Binding - Lays a mine that draws on the power of night to ensnare opponents with tendrils of darkness. Stuns opponents for a while*. Can only be used at night.
Spell 4 - Cloak of Shadows - The Shadow Rider withdraws into darkness to hide from sight. Cloaks the Shadow Rider for a short time (is this possible to do? If not, I could think of something else).

Spell 1 is very useful during the day, letting you sneak up on opponents easily since they can't see. Could be quite handy when taking the outposts at the start, it'd be pretty easy to stall if they don't know where you're coming from.

Spell 2 is meant for surprise attacks on an opponent, teleporting in front of them to attack, or, if you can time it right, teleporting away from an opponent for a while until they go away, then returning.

For spell 3, I had a unique idea - the stun lasts a short time initially, but once the mine is laid, the amount of time the stun lasts grows longer as the mine lays untriggered during the night. During daylight, the amount of time stay the same as the intial stun. The spell can only be used at night, but the stun will work during the day. There would also be a cap to how long the stun can last as it "charges" at night. This "charged" stun will revert to the initial period of time during the day, and if the trap is still there the next night, it has to "charge" the stun again.

Spell 4 is self-explanatory. The Cloak would last a while though, longer than the normal Cloak the Medic and Phantom have, but not *too* long. It'd be long enough you could get some usage out of it.

I was also gonna say Spell 4 can only be used at night as well, but then realized it's useless during the day anyway.

Sorry if this idea sucks, but since there's already a divide between night-strong heroes and day-strong, I think a hero with spells that functioned depending on the time would be cool.

Post has been edited 3 time(s), last time on Aug 9 2009, 12:52 am by DrakeClawfang.

That hero would be terrible. The only way it would be half decent is because it's a Vulture, but it would have to be the non-hero Vulture and thus it shoots much slower than the Mech.

The spells are almost entirely worthless:
L1: Interesting, might help.
L2: Teleporting on top of someone when your hero revolves around ranged attack micro and you're faster than everyone anyway? And moving as a scourge, which is slower than most heroes? Why not just make it kill you?
L3: Ridiculous to trigger, wouldn't work well anyway because the hero would probably not be around when the stun gets triggered.
L4: Would need an arbiter, and that would just be ugly and impractical, and pretty useless anyway.


Another Vulture hero is just a bad idea. All of the heroes are uniquely and instantly recognizable from one another; don't change that.




Also, just make it so that if you kill spawn gates you still get experience for the kills as if you had made them. That should be more than fair and actually rewards you doing what you're supposed to do.

Lol, np, I know my ideas suck. Thanks for the feedback.

EDIT - Okay, what about these?

Spell 1 - Smoke Bomb - same as before.
Spell 2 - Poison Bomb - spawns a mine that, when triggered, the opponent is subject to mana drain and slowdown for a period of time
Spell 3 - Shadow Rift - see below
Spell 4 - Shadow Bomb - turns all mines laid by the Shadow Rider (both Spell mines and his normal spider mines) into Shadow Bombs. When the Bombs are triggered, the opponent that triggered loses sight as with Smoke Bomb, but also is subject to mana drain and slowdown for a period of time as with Poison Bomb, and when the Bomb is triggered, the Shadow Rider sees where the opponent is for a moment.

For Shadow Rift, I had an idea that could be good, but may be tricky to impliment. The idea is that it spawns a burrowed Zerg unit that, when the player using the Shadow Rider unburrows it, the Zerg unit is removed and the Shadow Rider teleports to where the Zerg was. The burrowed Zerg is invincible, and the spell can only be used at night. Only one burrowed Zerg can be out at a time, if the spell is used while there's already one out, the first one is removed. This would let the Shadow Rider send out a scout to an area to spy on opponents and teleport to them to get the drop on them. If there's no Zerg that could be used for this, maybe there's some other way to enable the player to trigger the teleport manually? Casting the spell again perhaps, but for no cost of mana?

I'm trying to think up more useful spells. I do see how the original spells were largely useless, so I tried to think up better ones while staying true to the idea of a sneak attacker. These spells would let the Shadow Rider easily get to where an opponent is for those sneak attacks, as well as use Mines to mess with their abilities and weaken them even if the Shadow Rider can't get to them to attack. Also, all the mines laid by his traps, like the Earth Demon's Spell 2, would vanish once laid, so the opponents don't know where they are.

Post has been edited 4 time(s), last time on Aug 9 2009, 2:23 am by DrakeClawfang.

To Oli

Lol that's a better idea. C spamming is rare but if it's possible, people will do it which isn't good.

To Drake

Niiice Idea. I wonder if l2 would be that effective since vults are already fast enough to do quick surprise attacks. Unless you take away vult speed from shadow rider, it really would be no different than mech vult micro wise. l2 would be perfect then. :]


This would be my half-arse idea

Ice Sprite
Unit- non special High Templar with storm and hallucination
Hp- 2000/1400 Shield- 4 Def- 1
Pros- Balanced In defense and offense
Fast grinder
Spells are more effective at night
Cons- no actual attack
slow
so so Pker

L1- Ice shard - spawns an arbiter to hit twice (three) 100+5
L2- Freezing Prism - spawns a targetter (scourge) for 5 seconds, if it hits the hero, they will be tele'd to a ice prism (square area wit mins around them) for a duration of 15-20 seconds. The person will leave the prism with half of their hp gone.
L3- ******** i dont know yet
l4- Blizzard - Spawns a invincible carrier for 20-30 seconds with all max intercepter. Moveable. You can spawn more than 1 at a time with enough mana. Dmg 30+5

This probably is epic fail.
I'll think of other things later :]

Lvl 2 is a nono, as already explained for ED.
Lvl4 would need to be different probably, maybe change it to Heart of the Blizzard, and the HT changes into it for a time, and it IS. attackable. And maybe a ground unit underneath for ground units to atk, and if it dies the carrier gets stuck or changes back to Ht.

EDIT
And lvl 1 is too good for a lvl1 as it cloaks too.
Maybe for another spell, maybe lvl3, it spawns regularly spaced HT hallus, and randomly replaces one with the Real HT. Call it Ice Reflection or something.

I know Engineer will soon have SCV for l2, which I think is good. But i think sci vessel will be a bit plain for l3.

To give him more versatility, I think the supply depot should make an un-siegeable mounted turret (Siege Mode only as researchable so mech can still use siege) that is owned by the Engineer— max 1. He could either build it as defence, or outside the enemies' base and try to defend it. Effectiveness of the tank would be more useful for the duration of the game, as the attack could be upgraded. Building another supply depot would remove the current sieged tank and make a new one at the depot's location.

For a new l3- Battle Drone - creates a goliath (cap maybe 3) This would work well with the mounted gun attack upgrades.
-or-
Creates a goliath with a science vessel constantly centered on top of itself. It would be able to detect, cast spells, and attack. (You could have max two if you use the hero vessel for another drone)

Mine drone can get pretty messy and laggy. You could maybe put a mine cap limit, or...
L4 - Monolith Tank - A normal tank is created with a command center constantly centered on top of it. The tank will spawn a few rines around it, when enemies are close to the tank (hidden under the CC). The tank will have high firepower and hp, when it dies, the CC dies too. The tank will also not be able to siege with siege mode researchable.

I like the idea of being able to upgrade the defenses' attack, but your l4 idea wouldn't work. The Mech is the hero Tank, and the Mounted Gun is the Supply Depo defensive structure and the sieged Tank is Thor's Hammer for Mech's spells. There's no Tank units left for Monolith Tank to use.

Goliath with sci ves would be a mini hero, with it's own spells. A weak one but still. Also that would involve having two tech lines to follow, vehical ups and infantry ups.

Defenitely a mine cap.

I forget when this was mentioned and for what unit, but a building killing spell of some sort, maybe an invince mine owned by P9 that has dead hallus flashed over it as a timer, when it is closer to Boomtime, it flashes faster. When it explodes it creates a BC over it for a second. IDK how you would make it atk only buildings, but probably it would involve giving units to different players. If this idea is used I can think of a way for it to work.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Aug 9 2009, 3:47 am by zany_001.

That was kinda the point, engineer is mainly only good vs spawn. While it is kinda his niche to be a defender, it would be nice to have some offensive capabilities.

Having split upgrades, bat could choose to be a grinder, infantry ups, or an attacker with vehicle ups.

Hi, first post!

I've really fallen in love with TS, still not very good but I'm working on it.

As far as the possibility of a new hero goes, what if one of the mech's forms was removed? The mech is incredibly powerful, good range and damage as a goliath, long range capabilities as a tank and with l1 and insane damage with his final. I find the fact that he has a bike mode is a bit overkill considering how powerful he is. What if the bike mode was taken away? the l3 can be transferred to l2 and the bonus l2 can still spawn wraiths over the tank or spawn unseiged tanks. This way, the l2 becomes a close defense mechanism which can be used when the tank is sieged. the l3 can spawn several BC's around the mech regardless of mode. The l4 can remain the same, only it will spawn wraith or bc's instead of vultures. This creates further split upgrades, which means more minerals will be required to achieve the unbelievable damage saturation capacity the mechs are known for. Plus the BCs further the powerhouse image of the mech. Losing the bike mode consequently remove the moves ability to gtfo of sticky situations, but i've always found the mechs power when combined with vulture mirco a bit unfair anyway, considering power + vulture = really bad for any light unit trying to get to safety.

This frees Jim Raynor up for use as an independent hero. He could be used as a heavy support character like the medic, using his speed to provide combat support for his teammates. I was thinking maybe;

Priest/Protector
HP: 4000
Attack: 30+2
Armor: 0
L1- Holy Ward; Priest and nearby allies become immune to enemy spell effects for 10 seconds; drains energy from enemy units in a wider radius. This spell will temporarily stop enemy curses such as those of the dm, volt, medic, and various stuns/traps used by volt and warrior. To prevent the priest from going full mana to generate permanent immunity there will be a casting delay of 10 seconds. Thus as maximum 10 second immunity, 10 second vulnerability, mana allowing for such.
L2- Enchanting Blades; Priest gives 10 minerals to a random nearby ally. Priest must have 10 minerals to give.
L3- Soul Bind; Spawns 8 civilians encircling nearby foes, constricting their movement. I chose civs because they don't attack and unlike hallucinations, won't be broken by ensnare/storm/emp etc. The bind lasts for maybe 5-10 seconds and the bound enemy can still attack.
L4- Pacify; Teleports all nearby units back to their allied temple. Includes heros and spawns. I choose this as his L4 so that it costs the same or more mana than it would take to apply a stun/curse to the priest or his ally. The priest is teleported also.

An alternative could also be to have the Mech hero become the non-hero vulture.

other spell ideas could include;

Soul Crush; Doubles the amount of units that must be built to acitivate a spell. Effectively doubles the casting time and cost of spells.
Enchanted Blade v2; Gives nearby allies an invincible unit depending on their character for 3 seconds. The unit will match the unit type of the character. For instance rine and bat will get a water gremlin, mech will get a non-hero vulture, psion gets a zealot or maybe a dt, archer gets a muta or guardian, lm gets a goon/reaver etc. This spell is meant to effect direct attackers better than indirect attackers like summoner and the mages. The bonus unit should if possible do 20+2, or a base damage that is some % of the hero's base.
Inspire; Temporarily enchants nearby allys. Each kill gives the enchanted ally 1 mineral, slaying a hero while Inspired gives 10 minerals.
Focus; Enchants nearby teammates, they get a 20% rebate on spells cast for the next 15 seconds. So casting l1 will give back 5 gas after the initial 25 is spent. l2 will give back 10 etc.
Mana Storm; Drains all mana from all nearby heros including self, allys, and foes. Spawns some number of air units in the area. Their number and/or duration depends on the total mana drained. The spawned units cannot be upgraded.
Negotiate; All nearby units/buildings owned by the enemy base are converted to the caster's temple. Buildings are returned after a while, spawns will continue until they are killed. Perhaps also convert summons?
Imagined Pain; Sets cursed hero to 5% life. They can no longer be healed at the temple. They do not lose a life the next time they die.
Exile; Cursed enemy is temporarily attacked by both temples.

Just some ideas.

Also, what about making Warrior's l3 also kill summoned units?

I don't see the difference having a mech in bike mode and a vulture hero. Either way they will have the vulture mobility to micro vs small units.

They would be seperate heroes though, so you could have the power of the mech(which would need MORE power to make up for one of its greatest assets) or the other Raynor hero.

The vulture hero would be more tactically oriented, and not as purely powerful as the mech hero. The bike mode of the mech is powerful, and gives the mech great mobility on top of power, like the ability to zoom right up to someone and use l4 to deal an insane amount of damage and then zoom off. Bike mode also allows the mech to quickly escape sticky situations on top of form shifting already granting some regenerative powers. The bonus l2 gives fire-on-the-move ability, effectively doubling the bike mode's damage output when it is included with micro. Bike mode is arguably more useful than any of the mechs other spells other than l4, which is particularly devastating because of the bikes speed. The necessity of balace typically forbids the mingling of speed AND power, let alone range. The mech has power, range, AND speed.
A vulture hero would still have microability, but wouldn't have the power of the mech, and wouldn't have the same auto-micro that bike mode does.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Aug 9 2009, 10:19 am by ladyalanah.