First, let me state that I'm aware this isn't technically an UMS related question but I didn't see any better place to put this.

My friends and I love playing custom AIs (from broodwarai.com) and I wanted to design a great 4v4 team map for us to play that would result in epic battles. Problem is: I want the us all to start in specific start locations (like an UMS map) and for the computers opponents to start in specific locations as well. I want it to still play like a regular Top vs Bottom or Melee map but with specific start locations. Is this possible? I've tried everything within the normal StarEdit that I can think of and haven't gotten any results. (the only way we can play now is to choose TvB as the game type and re-start the games until we start where we want to - it's not a good process)

Thanks for any help.

Turn off randomize start location for ALL forces with players in it.


via Scmdraft2

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Apr 22 2009, 5:59 am by Bill Clinton.

^

for this is true. randomize start location = off = ftw = problem fix

Hey guys, thanks for the fast replies. The included image was a nice touch. I tried turning off randomize start locations for all forces and it did not fix my problem. I double and triple checked everything but can't get the desired results. I tried using every game type (on battle.net) and it never puts the team in the correct locations (except when I use UMS, of course, but then there's no comp. players obviously). I noticed you're using SCMdraft as your editor - is this perhaps important in anyway? I'm just using StarEdit but could easily open in SCMdraft if it would help.

i suggest just always use scmdraft as a defult editor... as for your problem post the map and il look at it.

There's not much you can do since the randomized start location settings are only working in UMS (which you already noticed).
Editors have nothing to do with it.

If you think about it it makes sense. Blizzard doesn't want mappers to be able to make imbalanced maps where they always go to the spot which offers an advantage when they're playing a game that alters stats (which all but UMS).

But isn't it possible to to integrate these AIs into your map? I'm not sure how AIs are integrated into StarCraft in general (that's modding stuff), but ScmDraft has the ability to load custom .mpqs (maybe more?) so you should be able to make an UMS map where you set up the computers and apply the respective AIs to them. Of course you'll still need the usual mods to make it work and thus doesn't work on bnet.

yea modded mpqs for star edit dosnt really do anything to the map online unless u use the mod with the map >.>
as for AI i have an custom ai editor but idk how to put the codes into the map... idk if that would work online or not either.
if you can put it in the map it might work... unless blizzard filters maps for something that isnt supposed to be there and just deletes it before game starts

You can't put an AI into the map (as in the map stores the AI) you can only USE it in your triggers using the "[race] expansion custom level" (will be overwritten). But you still need to run AI-modded StarCraft or it will be the standard expansion custom level AI, instead of your custom one.

I thought I made it clear how the process works:
- Get your AI (either premade or selfmade)
- Load it into ScmD (can be skipped for melee games)
- Add a computer using "[race] expansion custom level" (can be skipped for melee playing)
- Start your AI-modded StarCraft
- Play the map in UMS mode for preset start locations (make sure anyone who's playing runs the same AI-mod)

If you try to play that map with standard sc either the AI will be ignored or you get an error (not sure which one, but I know it will not work). If you play it with modded sc you can't play with pubbies on bnet (all players need the mod).

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Apr 22 2009, 4:28 pm by NudeRaider.

Most of that stuff is unnecessary. Custom AI mods ALWAYS use "(race) custom expansion" scripts, so if you set up and AI using that script, it will use the AI included with your mod. And I'm not sure what you mean by "Play the map in any mode other than Bnet", because AI-only mods are not version dependent and therefore playable over standard battle.net servers. Just make sure you don't try to include anyone who is not running the AI mod or they'll desync.

If I need to clarify anything, let me know.

Sounds fun. And I'll add it to the Custom Ai database when its done.

One thing to note is that "melee" AI scripts (modded or not) behave radically different when run in UMS form. I believe it has something to do with the headers, but have not spent a whole lot of time investigating. Nonetheless, your map will be fine running the melee Ai's in UMS, it just won't quite be the same.

I'd like to see/been meaning to create a hybrid map that will trigger Death Match Mode for Racine's Rebels but NOT be a FMP. There are 2 ways that this could be done:
1. Add a few mineral patches to the starting locations in a Fa$te$t stacked type placement, but these mineral patches only hold enough minerals for 2 or 3 passes. about 24 minerals. This will trigger the Death Match Mode scripts as well as the Kills2Gas etc, but will play like a standard map as soon as these minerals run out. 3 passes for 4 stacked minerals shouldn't take too long. Unfortunately the empty player starting spots will have those minerals. This map of course will be played in Melee.
2. Build a UMS that removes these mineral fields and/or runs the DeathMatch Mode scripts at location.

... anywhoo.. good luck w/ your map. PM me or create a thread at our site and we'll play your map on Bnet sometime. Some of the script's creators are still around and would be happy to play some games on Bnet w/ your map.

OK sry, I'm no modder, so I got a few details wrong. I'll fix accordingly.

Since you are already using a mod (yes, a custom AI is a mod, just only with the AI modded), you should just edit the GOT template for the game mode you want (this will make it fixed start locations on ANY map, and you wont need to edit the map+use UMS). I dunno if you can do it with GOTEdit, but in PyGOT/Game Template its as easy as changing "Start Locations" to "Fixed" instead of "Random":


I've attached the modded GOT template for Melee. Open the mods MPQ/EXE with WinMPQ, and add it as "templates\melee(1).got", then send the MPQ/EXE to your friends.

Attachments:

oooo Sweet!

That crossed my mind as well. Now that's the route to take because the AI will be played in Melee NOT UMS which makes them all screwy! You can use PyTrig to add some general stripped trigs to the mod too if you need to. You won't be able to come close to what you can do with a UMS in terms of triggers, but it will serve your purpose and be pretty fun.

pm me or poiuy if you need help putting together the modded files to distribute to your friends.

Hey, there's an idea. Is it possible to replace Melee with another Top vs Bottom, but with fixed positions?

You could. You could also add a completely new game mode, just add a new .got to the MPQ then edit templates\templates.lst to include the file name.

Alright, I've got a lot more responses to this than I would ever have imagined (thanks to everyone who has posted thus far, btw). It also seems to be more complicated than I initially thought but that's the fun in it, I suppose. I've tried pretty much everything listed with no avail but this particular solution seemed rather elegant so I wanted to pursue it. I download PyGOT and WinMPQ as well as the .got file you included in your post. I fired up WinMPQ and added the file via the menu. In the file view it successfully showed up as "templates\melee(1).got" and I then quit WinMPQ and launched the modified Racine's Rebels Final.exe (there's no secret to which AI I'm using atm). I used a modified map that had no special triggers but had two forces (one top, one bottom - 4 teams each) and turned off randomize start locations for all players. I then started a new top vs bottom game on BNET with seven computers and, unfortunately, it did not produce the results I'm looking for. I'm sure I've made a mistake somewhere and included as many screenshots of my "work" for someone to determine where I have gone astray.



Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Apr 22 2009, 7:59 pm by blacksunseven.

That particular template is for Melee not Top vs. Bottom. I just tried his (poiuy's) file out in a custom Single player melee game on an 8 player map and hit restart at least a dozen times. Every time I started in the same position.

You can modify a top vs. bottom template to do the same thing, but this particular template (melee(1).got) is meant to be played in Melee game mode. Hope that works for you as you appear to have added it correctly to the .exe.

Well it's my first time with most of these tools but all of you have been extremely helpful and I've finally solved this. I took bajadulce's advice and used WinMPQ to extrace the .got file for Top vs Bottom from the Blizz MPQ. I then simply changed start locations from random to fixed and inserted into RR-AI. Tested it on BNET and it appears to function perfectly. Thanks for all the help everyone!

How do u edit templates\templates.lst??

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Oct 16 2010, 1:09 am by MegaXccX.