CAFG: I'm not quite sure at what point she lied about her age.
Even if she had lied, it still doesn't constituce inducement. If the minor had in some way compelled kellimus to make the sale by creating some consequences for not selling her the tobacco, like threatening him, then it would be inducement. A cashier is under no compulsion to sell tobacco to anyone without an ID, not even if they're old and grey.
As for the 'Money = Debt' thing, I think I can sum it up fairly simply:
Interest.
Federal Reserve: "You need a dollar? Okay, we'll loan you a dollar, but you'll owe us back the dollar and a dime."
Since the Federal Reserve makes all the money, you have the dollar, but the dime doesn't exist, because the Reserve hasn't made it. Therefore, you are now permanently ten cents in the hole; you can't pay back money that you don't have.
This problem is compounded in that every loan (Reserve to government, banks to everyone, etc) comes with interest. It's impossible to pay off every loan due to that fact that more money is owed then exists, due to interest being theoretical money that is owed, rather than real money.
Hailfire, you have already brought up this point and I have already addressed it:
Indeed he touched on that, but it's not that hard to explain.
Let us call the sum total of all money in the U.S. (we could use the world here, but let's keep i to the U.S. just for ease) = X = 10,000,000
Lets say the bank starts with 5,000,000, you start with 0, and everyone else starts with 5,000,000
Now, the bank loans you 1,000,000, so X = You + (bank-1,000,000) + everyone else. Now, you spend that 1,000,000 on something, so "everyone else" gets +1,000,000, and we're still all evens, namely
10,000,000 = 0 + 4,000,000 + 7,000,000
The next step occurs over time. Today, when you were given the million, there is only so many tangible and untangible things of value in the world. Laptops, cars, hours of peoples time (like a psychiatrist or something). Now some of these things expire, which
detracts from the total value of our sum (like the psychiatrists time, once your hour is up that valueable time is gone). However, some things, like a laptop or a car, don't expire. If the net value of all new things (nonexpired - expired) is positive, than our sum X will no longer = 10,000,000. The above equation becomes invalid, and becomes something more like this: 11,000,000 = 0 +4,000,000 + 7,000,000. (Note: these are simply values meant to show whats going on, and not exact.) Now, when it comes time for you to pay back the bank, where are you going to get that money? You have to work, or play the stock market, or hell, someone gives you a 1.1 million dollar gift. Look what happens to our equation.
11,000,000 = 1,100,000 + 4,000,000 + 5,900,000
Then, wheny you finally pay back the bank,
11,000,000 = 0 + 5,100,000 + 5,900,000.
As long as people continue to do their jobs, invent new things, make ipods and cars and steel and houses, there will not be some money that doesn't exist. Even if the sum WAS fixed, like such:
10,000,000 = 0 + 4,000,000 + 6,000,000
You still get the money to pay back the bank from other people.
10,000,000 = 1,100,000 + 4,000,000 + 4,900,000
Then
10,000,000 = 0 + 5,100,000 + 4,900,000
Additionally, Kellimus already brought up this point and I have addressed it then as well:
Perhaps we should open a new topic about money, but I will continue to reply here. Certainly your father's signerature on a loan to him means he is in the banks debt to repay that loan, but I wasn't talking about that in my previous post. I was talking about the actual federal reserve note: The Dollar. In the case of your father, that really has little to do with the existence of money, that sounds more like a case of bad accounting, or perhaps corruption, on the banks part. Banks especially should know that sort of thing. In any case, loans and interest are still a value which is standardized by the dollar, and they don't simply create a value out of nothing. The Note for 40,000 dollars has a value, and they sold it to someone else for that value presumably. However, that note says something like so: "this is the contract that the value given to your father by the bank shall be repaid, plus the value of interest as determined by the terms of the contract" Perhaps if you want to be utterly strict and technical, you have a case. The 40,000 dollars does not exist yet, so perhaps there is a value created out of "nothing." However, it is reasonably assumed that the person who owes the value will create that value over time and holder of the note will be repaid; just as reasonable as it is to assume that a man who works a steady job (or is in some other way qualified of the trust of repaying the note), and by steady job, I mean he exchanges the value of his time and effort for the standardized value of money, that that man will create value over time. In such a fashion it is reasonably assumed that the value of the note will be created, despite it not existing currently. This certainly supports the reasonableness and existence of money as a standardized value.
Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Mar 7 2009, 5:53 am by Vrael.
None.