Staredit Network > Forums > SC1 UMS Theory and Ideas > Topic: Tux's Last Mega Map
Tux's Last Mega Map
Dec 30 2009, 12:51 pm
By: The Starport
Pages: 1 2 38 >
 

Dec 30 2009, 12:51 pm The Starport Post #1



Tux's Final Mega Map
Decisions, decisions...




I figure I have patience left in me enough for one more map, so I might as well make it big, right? Well here's the deal: I'm (near) equally torn between 3 4 ideas, so I want your opinion on which to go with!


Actually scratch that. I don't give a crap about what you think. :P But I am interested in any insights on the matter in case there is something worth considering, assuming there's any I haven't thought of yet.

Anyway, here's my choices:

Quote
Sin

The idea here is simple: It's a massive Open RPG-ish map vaguely inspired by the central premise of the Final Fantasy X story: Stopping a colossal, world-destroying monster called Sin. Beyond that, it won't have any pre-established story or plot to make note of nor any loving cast of androgynous Japanese whiny soccer-playing teenagers to worry about. Instead, I treat you to a fully dynamic, procedurally-generated game world with a diverse range of gameplay and player options, all built around the epic central premise of Sin hunting.

Deicide aside, as it is technically an open RPG, you'll have the option of some fudge room with the notions of victory and defeat (muahahah!). But really, since I'm not a huge fan of open RPGs, I'll make it pretty clear about what you 'should' do, while also giving players some fun ways to fuck with the system, if they're so inclined.


The Sin monster itself is a pretty no-brainer entity that wanders around and causing havoc and destroying shit. Its presence and the nature of its abilities make for a number of gameplay elements:
  • First note that there's no force in the game that can 'directly' stop Sin. It's like a fucking tornado. It'll cause damage wherever it goes, but generally as long as you avoid its primary path and do what you can to clean up after it, you'll get by. To a point.
  • Speaking of clean up, besides raw damage, it'll also leave a lot of crap behind in its wake. Crap that likes to come to life, grow, infest areas, and possibly even overrun them, if left unchecked. And since you can't be in two places at once, this'll start to get a little out of hand after a while.
  • And of course, to help matters, Sin itself will 'grow' over time. You can damage it periodically to help trim its claws a bit and stunt parts of its growth (hopefully without neglecting cleanup), but ultimately you're going to want to kill this fucker: It WILL become unmanageable, eventually.
  • Additionally, if you neglect harassing it for too long, it'll start doing fun stuff like using world-destroying gravity-based attacks that will quickly mop up the civilizations you're supposedly trying to protect. So don't think you can just sit in a corner somewhere and power up into insanity. At least, not without consequences.
  • To actually kill the beast, though, you will need to physically enter inside of it and hunt down its 'controller'. The more left as a surprise about this process, the better. Just note that it will involve delivering a minimal amount of critical damage to the monster, first.

Now, I've mentioned something about some pesky civilizations you'll be wanting to protect. Why? Well because you depend on them. I'm basically sick of the concept of grinding for its own sake, so I'd rather give your work a distinct purpose: The more damage you can prevent to civilizations, the more and better toys you'll have to work with as the game progresses. That's right. No leveling up bullshit. You have to get your tools from people rather than some dumb magic jRPG grind-based game mechanics. Rest assured that dealing with civilizations will involve its own set of drama which you're free to indulge in to whatever extent you have the patience/inclination/ability for. I might even throw in some fun stuff like mini-games or cleanup tasks akin to emergency worker activities (Fire Fighters, anyone?) or whatever else I'm stoned enough to mix when I get to it. :P
tl;dr version: Epic open RPG-ish map with the mother of all monster hunts!



Quote
Space Dogs

Here's a fun little concept map. It'll be player versus with mode selection (FFA, Team, etc.) that involves, you guessed it, ships n' space n' shit! Oh what fun!

This will probably be by far the most technologically advanced map I'd ever try to manage within Starcraft's constraints with the serious intent of making something worth playing.


Anyway. The premise is thus: Each player starts with a crew, a commander, a ship, and enough mullah to do some rudimentary stuff with it. Game begins at a main, central port (two ports if it's team-based - one for each team), and from there it's on to the wide frontier of space! This map will be massive: Both physically and technically. Using a combination of my old Zoning system concept, virtual arenas (I think Lethal's idea), and my own custom trigger scripting API for lots o' maths n' shit (MacroTriggers just wouldn't cut it in it's current form), you'll have nearly the equivalent of thousands of miles of open space to have fun with.

But all that space is useless without something to do with it. Well got that covered, too. In it will be a solar system with its own sun, planets, and other satellites; each with their own mass, gravity, and even rudimentary orbital physics. Within this setting will be spaces for colonies; both player and NPC controlled. Colonies, of course, generate resources, recruits, and also secure swaths of territory and can be built, captured, or destroyed. With resources and crew, players can customize the physical characteristics of their ships to commence with beating the ever-loving snot out of one another.

Ship battles hearken back to ye olden days of buccaneers on the high seas lobbing cannon balls at one another over fair distances (a wink to my old Cannon Balls map, maybe?). Of course, no good space map is without mandatory spacey futuristic shit, which gives me plenty of room for a lot of awesome gameplay mechanics and ideas. All of this tied together with a highly extensible, physically-simulated ship (complete with damageability for specific, physically represented parts and whatnot) and what is probably the most powerful interface possible in Starcraft without EUDs or modding.
tl;dr version: Astrogears 2.0... but without the suck.



Quote
A&O Saga

Okay okay. Since I made a trailer for it, I might as well consider using it for something. Well here's your something: An epic movie map! That's right! No fancy RPG shit here. I shall to go out the way I came in: Moviez! Rest assured of an epic tale of high adventure, drama, action, and storytelling. I'll try to actually not fuck around and make it somewhat serious this time (however tempting surprise crash endings may be), but no guarantees. I promise to thoroughly abuse the Starcraft string limit, blatantly disregard any notion of reasonable file size (moar wavs! om nom nom...), and consume a large portion of my your sanity along the way!
tl;dr version:
Okay okay. Since I made a trailer for it, I might as well consider using it for something. Well here's your something: An epic movie map! That's right! No fancy RPG shit here. I shall to go out the way I came in: Moviez! Rest assured of an epic tale of high adventure, drama, action, and storytelling. I'll try to actually not fuck around and make it somewhat serious this time (however tempting surprise crash endings may be), but no guarantees. I promise to thoroughly abuse the Starcraft string limit, blatantly disregard any notion of reasonable file size (moar wavs! om nom nom...), and consume a large portion of my your sanity along the way!









Anyway, assuming you actually read all of that before you arsed yourself to form an opinion, I guess I'll also provide some of my personal insight on each:
  • Sin: To be honest, I've never liked Open RPGs. I enjoy dynamic concept maps that express novel gameplay mechanics and technical elements and give players lots of freedom, but I'm starting to find that existential non-linearity irritates the fuck out of me in a game. I'll save that for another rant, though.

    That said, I think molding such a format to have a distinct structure and purpose while retaining its key property of being unconstrained has some possible merit I'd be interested in exploring. This'll be an epic map, sure, but it really won't do a heck of a lot to push Starcraft technologically beyond the novelty of the central premise and some implementation specifics. I certainly wouldn't skimp on features, but unless I decide to pull some new fancy gunner system out of my anus, I plan not to abuse the game too much (knock on wood).

    To be honest, I think the notion of pushing Starcraft “technology” has pretty much died in me since finishing Rush, seeing as how it basically amounts to abusing a near-abandonware game into doing things it isn't meant to be doing to produce stuff that doesn't really improve your chances of an average player enjoying your map. Not that this is about what an average player cares about or anything. But that does sorta have a lesson in it: Why bother pushing your tech if you can't first make good maps within it? Even the 8-bit era has funner games than many of the multi-million dollar epics being spewed out today.


    Anyway. As for what I think about making this map? Well, it'll certainly be a chore, but I'd look forward to making it.

  • Space Dogs: This is the map I'd use to accomplish two main things: Redemption after that miserable atrocity known as Astrogears, and to remind you upstart fuckers who's boss! ;) But to be honest, I'm not completely sure I give a shit about either goal any more. I've already expressed my opinion on Starcraft “technology”, but it feels like my decision for this boils down to a version of adulthood vs. childhood, in a way. Though I don't fancy myself quite as mature as I could be, I'm not sure I have unlimited time or energy for these sorts of maps anymore (same with Sin, too, but to a lesser extent). I could always instead snipe in a tech demo with shitty playability just to show off the tech, but I think we're reaching the point now where if I wasn't going to be the one to turn it into a real map, no one would. But that's also a separate topic.


    In spite of all this, I can't help but feel this might be the only 'right' solution, if you know what I mean. *sigh* Tough decision with this one...

  • A&O Saga: Though I initially only barely considered this to be a serious option, the more I think about it now, the more appealing it becomes to me. Movie maps are very straightforward to make. They're fun to watch. You can do crazy shit with them and no one asks questions. Players can't really break them. These maps are about as 'safe' as they come.

    However, that's also the downside: It almost seems like the lazy way out. Almost.


    That said, I have a few compelling reasons to consider this: Firstly, I sorta promised to do it (even if it was supposed to be in '07... oops). That's always a drag. :P Secondly, I like doing these sorts of maps. They're a tad tedious, sure, but in mapping terms it's like eating junk food. Doesn't help you grow or nothing, but it tastes yummy. :D

    But more importantly, I've always longed to try my hand at a 'serious' story telling experience for a change. Rush was close to becoming that, but I decided the gunner system and RPG mechanics I chose for it kinda sucked and my attempt at a story was sorta cobbled together at the end (even though I technically also promised to continue that one, too... oh wait, I did :P). And Sin wouldn't be suitable for story telling in the conventional sense.

    Not to mention the story I had composed for A&O actually wasn't too shabby itself, and I could probably edit and update it now to be even better. That kinda makes this option the best 'bang for the buck'... even if it'd only be a buck, figuratively speaking. :P



Or I might just not do one at all. That's always an option too, right?

Post has been edited 16 time(s), last time on Jan 7 2010, 3:50 am by Tuxedo-Templar.



None.

Dec 30 2009, 1:32 pm JaFF Post #2



Anything but a movie map. Maps are made to be played, not watched. Want to practice story-telling? - Make a SGI movie or a real movie, don't try it in SC.

Space Dogs and Sin would be awesome maps if you complete them as planned.

Space Dogs: be more specific about how you'll represent ships, create basic physical laws (gravity) to govern their movement and the battle system(s).



None.

Dec 30 2009, 1:41 pm The Starport Post #3



Quote from JaFF
Anything but a movie map. Maps are made to be played, not watched. Want to practice story-telling? - Make a SGI movie or a real movie, don't try it in SC.
Aw. :( But I liek moveh maps!

:P
Quote
Space Dogs and Sin would be awesome maps if you complete them as planned.

Space Dogs: be more specific about how you'll represent ships, create basic physical laws (gravity) to govern their movement and the battle system(s).
Ships will be represented in the virtual arena by liftoff buildings air units arranged in a rough semblance of the ship's physical layout itself. Zoning, grids, and a lot of fun math will go into that.

Gravity I'm not too sure about yet (that is, I'm not sure if I'll really go that far :P), but it will mainly just apply for the macro-level view of the game area (the scale where all things in the solar system will be represented at their furthest zoom level).

The general-use interface system involves a hotkeyed group of up to 12 units that control basically everything involving your ship on the outside (all of its abilities, attacks, movement, etc.). This one is a bit hard to explain. You'll just have to see it.

A separate, small, internal representation of each ship will also be available, whereby individual crew members are controllable and parts of the ship individually take damage and can be repaired, modified, or even outright redesigned. Major parts in the ship's interior representation are mapped to your outward physical representation.



I can just feel Starcraft groaning in pain already. :P

Post has been edited 4 time(s), last time on Dec 30 2009, 3:55 pm by Tuxedo-Templar.



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Dec 30 2009, 4:07 pm Pinky Post #4



I dunno why you saying "this is your last map" I mean come on SC2 is coming out soon mapping is about to explode back into life!!

But if you thinking of making last map in SC Original maybe you shouldn't go for large projects due to the time constraints of SC2 release.

Also why have an Open RPG? I'm with you I've never enjoyed them, why not make it a regular RPG. Perhaps a very sandboxish RPG but still RPG none-the-less.

Movie maps I would say no fucking way Space Dogs I would give thumbs up but overall I reckon you should do a SIN Rpg. Yeh I vote for that one. If you want to trim down the time make it single player as well. That would also go well with your whole "I want to make a serious story-driven map". Of course you don't have to rip FF put your own take on it.

Anyway theres my 2cents worth, go cash that in somewhere.



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Dec 30 2009, 4:20 pm MadZombie Post #5



Ah, I guess i'd pick the RPG since it seems to have the most replay value. You should do a turn based map or a CARD GAMEZ. Something people talk about doing but don't do. But yea +1 for RPG I guess



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Dec 30 2009, 4:28 pm Kenoli Post #6



RUSH THREE



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Dec 30 2009, 4:39 pm Jesusfreak Post #7



I vote for idea #2.

1.) I hate movie maps. JaFF said it perfectly.
2.) Idea #1 is awesome, but too awesome. If you make an open rpg, no one will ever be able to make an open rpg again due to the fact that nothing could be more awesome or popular than an open rpg Tuxlar himself made. And I want to make an open rpg someday (preferably done during this summer, but knowing me, it probably won't happen) \:\(.



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Dec 30 2009, 4:45 pm Psionic_Storm Post #8



Any.

Taking replay value into consideration, I would say the movie map would be a waste of time to make, even though it sounds interesting enough.

In my opinion you should pick the one you would like to do and have the most ideas for.



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Dec 30 2009, 4:45 pm The Starport Post #9



Quote from Jesusfreak
1.) I hate movie maps. JaFF said it perfectly.
Oh fuck your bandwagons. You guys haven't seen a real movie yet!



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Dec 30 2009, 4:46 pm Sacrieur Post #10

Still Napping

I say do both #1 and #2 and combine them into one game so that way we have best of both worlds in one map.



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Dec 30 2009, 4:51 pm Kaias Post #11



Instead you should join forces with me and we can rule the galaxy as father and son!

Failing that, go for number 1.

Failing that, don't go for number 3.



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Dec 30 2009, 4:51 pm MadZombie Post #12



Quote from name:Tuxedo-Templar
Quote from Jesusfreak
1.) I hate movie maps. JaFF said it perfectly.
Oh fuck your bandwagons. You guys haven't seen a real movie yet!
I remember this beautiful movie map that was a trailer for some star wars map and in the end the 2 factions clashed in the middle and this matrix music was playing with the opera like singing and it was time so perfectly and a nuke fell in between them. It was magnificent. Not sure why I brought that up. But really, jsut taking replay value into account auto kicks the movie idea. Unless it's like one of those interactive movies that slightly change depending on yes or no answers. Even than I'd still kick the movie idea. Now then a Turn based RPG based on FF tactics. That's where the moneys at \:whistle\:



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Dec 30 2009, 5:00 pm Sacrieur Post #13

Still Napping

Quote from name:Tuxedo-Templar
Quote from Jesusfreak
1.) I hate movie maps. JaFF said it perfectly.
Oh fuck your bandwagons. You guys haven't seen a real movie yet!

Ionno, b.net experience was pretty good.



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Dec 30 2009, 6:16 pm Jack Post #14

>be faceless void >mfw I have no face

Make a zombie map. 'nuff said.



Red classic.

"In short, their absurdities are so extreme that it is painful even to quote them."

Dec 30 2009, 11:37 pm payne Post #15

:payne:

tl;dr (jk).
I like the Space Dogs, the two other ideas seems very boring :S



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Dec 30 2009, 11:59 pm Neki Post #16



Quote from Kenoli
RUSH THREE
THIS. I say do all three of them, but please do #1 before anything else. :D



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Dec 31 2009, 12:16 am Marine Post #17



Don't leave tux D:



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Dec 31 2009, 1:52 am Vrael Post #18



number 1

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Dec 31 2009, 10:15 pm by Vrael. Reason: obviously no one found it remotely funny



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Dec 31 2009, 1:53 am Demented Shaman Post #19



Make an AoS.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Dec 31 2009, 10:20 am by JaFF. Reason: Ignorant trolling. Bad attitude. Bad breath.



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Dec 31 2009, 2:12 pm The Starport Post #20



Quote from Sacrieur
I say do both #1 and #2 and combine them into one game so that way we have best of both worlds in one map.
And if I'm lucky I might even release it before Blizzard releases SC2!
</badjoke>

Quote from Kaias
Instead you should join forces with me and we can rule the galaxy as father and son!
Quiet you.

Quote from name:Jeraziah
Make an AoS.
lol.



None.

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