Staredit Network > Forums > SC1 Melee Map Projects > Topic: (2)Northern Isles
(2)Northern Isles
Nov 19 2009, 5:01 am
By: Marine  

Nov 19 2009, 5:01 am Marine Post #1



This is my second* attempt at a melee map.



Post has been edited 4 time(s), last time on Nov 20 2009, 1:23 am by Marine.



None.

Nov 19 2009, 8:02 am BeDazed Post #2



Well, since this is your first map...

I'll get to point. First, even though everything is nicely done and stuff, decoration wise- you can see the middle is super narrow. And narrow is bad, very bad. Everything siege tank and a good amount of anti air can make a Terran nearly invincible to a point that other races will just resort to cheese techniques. And even that doesn't work everytime.

Also, the natural is way too far. (Natural is usually defined as the first expansion you can take easily with nearly no effort- and be able to defend it just as easily.), making it very disadvantageous for Zergs and Protosses. That makes two advantages for Terran.

Usually, you balance the map in terms considering 3 things. First, you must understand varieties of strategies that each race can take.
The most important race to consider is Terran, because Terran has weapons of mass destruction of super duper doom. Simply put, rigged- in most cases. Why? Because Terran has the most powerful basic unit, the most longest ranged and the most damaging unit, the most cheapest and most powerful anti air unit, etcetc... But the point is, when you give too many advantages to a race- the map becomes rigged. And thats no good. And it seems like your map is really rigged for Terrans.

On another case, with Zerg, you have to consider how fast you can get a natural base- which considerably changes the mutalisk timing variable (if you even know what that means... it means if you can get a natural faster, you can cut down the time you can collect a set amount of mutalisks.) And if you make the natural too close, it makes the Zerg- rigged. Because Mutalisks are cheap, and capable of the most powerful micro.

And last but not least, Protoss. Protoss usually have a thing or so for a lot of powerful units. They're so powerful that when Protosses have access to more than 2 expansions (natural included), they become rigged. Its also because Protoss have access to upgrades faster than other races, and even simple combinations are powerful. (Of course, in higher levels of play, simple combinations never work.) So you got to consider how easy it is to defend a third expansion. (Usually, close proximity of expansion to main means easy.)



None.

Nov 19 2009, 12:03 pm Excalibur Post #3

The sword and the faith

By rights I could lock this under the criteria here because you did not take the time to read the guide here. However I see Dazed has already gone through a bit of trouble, so I'll say this:
Making shitty maps is one thing, not reading the stickies is another. I know where you sleep.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Nov 19 2009, 1:08 pm by Excalibur.




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Nov 19 2009, 1:45 pm Marine Post #4



^ Called it.

Anyway, I did a render of what I could do to make a 'natural' and to open to the middle. Here it is.


The large circles at the top and bottom could be the naturals, and the lines are where the boarders for the middle would be. The circle/arrows are indicating I move back the bases. Yes/no?



None.

Nov 19 2009, 4:42 pm Excalibur Post #5

The sword and the faith

The map would still be too linear. You really don't have a good concept to work with and you're using a bad map size. I really recommend you try 96x96 or 128x128 first.




SEN Global Moderator and Resident Zealot
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The sword and the faith.

:ex:
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Nov 19 2009, 10:26 pm Marine Post #6



Explain what you mean by linear?

Anyway, I made the changes to show what i meant. Is it any better?



Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Nov 19 2009, 11:16 pm by Marine.



None.

Nov 19 2009, 11:09 pm Dem0n Post #7

ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ

The paths aren't wide enough, so units will have a hard time maneuvering through them. Also, if there's a battle in there, it's going to be a manslaughter when certain units fight each other.



Memes gather, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the memer on the walls. I am the shield that guards the realms of memes. I pledge my life and honor to the Meme's Watch, for this meme and all the memes to come.

Nov 19 2009, 11:27 pm Excalibur Post #8

The sword and the faith

Linear. The map is designed around a single path. It is a single solitary line from base to base. This is bad. T can just cover the line at any point and completely halt all progress. If you look at any pro map made in the last 5 years, all have alternate routes.

Also you clearly have refused to read the stickies in regard to mineral placement, distribution, and the gas issue. If you continue to blatantly ignore the information given to you, no one is going to want to help you.




SEN Global Moderator and Resident Zealot
-------------------------
The sword and the faith.

:ex:
Sector 12
My stream, live PC building and tech discussion.

Nov 19 2009, 11:29 pm Marine Post #9



So should I throw it away? Because I can't resize it, SCMDraft bugs out if I try to resize it to 96x96 or any other size.



None.

Nov 19 2009, 11:29 pm Excalibur Post #10

The sword and the faith

Make. A. New. Map.

You have no concept.

You chose a bad map size.

You have fuck all idea of what you're doing.

Read the stickies and start over.




SEN Global Moderator and Resident Zealot
-------------------------
The sword and the faith.

:ex:
Sector 12
My stream, live PC building and tech discussion.

Nov 19 2009, 11:31 pm Marine Post #11



alright, will do. I'll scrap this and try again.

Edit:
Made a new map, read the guidelines and the criteria, I tried my best. Hope it works out this time.



Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Nov 20 2009, 1:24 am by Marine.



None.

Nov 20 2009, 7:20 am BeDazed Post #12



Actually, I suggest you accumulate melee experience before hand.



None.

Nov 22 2009, 4:39 am Marine Post #13



Actually, I have :/ Is this one worse?



None.

Nov 22 2009, 12:26 pm BeDazed Post #14



Yes.



None.

Nov 22 2009, 3:01 pm Excalibur Post #15

The sword and the faith

I recommend you study pro maps.
http://www.panschk.de/mappage/comments.php?mapid=3897
http://www.panschk.de/mappage/comments.php?mapid=3896
http://www.panschk.de/mappage/comments.php?mapid=3898
http://www.panschk.de/mappage/comments.php?mapid=3895
http://www.panschk.de/mappage/comments.php?mapid=3894
http://www.panschk.de/mappage/comments.php?mapid=3893
http://www.panschk.de/mappage/comments.php?mapid=3892

Notice how smooth they are? How there are usually no evident straight lines? Things are nice and curved, smooth, and the paths aren't super tight? Even I don't have good map execution after all this time, but I have good concepts. You need to work on the concept behind your map, why its interesting, why it should be played, and then when you execute it, work on why its not too tight, why it should have a path here rather than a cliff. Think about playing it, think about things like siege tanks and lurkers. Think about Z having to hold its natural and how hard it is for Z to be in two places at once early game. How T has to hold a ramp against dragoons before their macro gets going.




SEN Global Moderator and Resident Zealot
-------------------------
The sword and the faith.

:ex:
Sector 12
My stream, live PC building and tech discussion.

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