Nothin to say really, pretty standard map, finished deco before upload this time. I don't like how the high ruins look, I'll probably be replacing them with something nicer looking.
Download:
http://www.panschk.de/mappage/(2)CloakandDagger1.2.scm
Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Sep 9 2009, 8:28 pm by Excalibur.
Is the main's starting entrance unbuildable? Most maps gives options to build, so it readily becomes possible to block rushes (especially on a 1v1 map)- I wouldn't have minded this if it were a 4p map.
And I kind of feel that mineral patches on main should face west and east instead of north and south.
None.
The mains do have rocky ground blocking wall-ins. I felt the map was pretty damn tight so I wanted to hurt T quite a bit to compensate, hence all the rocks/ruins. My problem is I don't know much about P or balancing for them, so its hard for me to judge how things like that work for them as well. We all know Z doesn't wall-in/proxy very much if at all.
I wasn't too comfortable with the main min placement myself, however I re-did them 2 or 3 times and due to the mains not being all that big, this seems to give the most room while still having turret space. I guess I could change them around, but then the main feels uncomfortable and doesn't seem as spacious.
>be faceless void >mfw I have no face
It's OK, but quite bland. Nothing says, 'COMEPLAYME!'
There are some largish areas which are monotonous and could be broken up with sprites/doodads.
And the center ramps are too straight to look natural, which spoils it quite a lot.
Artistics aside, I'm no pro at melee balance but those top cliffs that are blocked of with the warp gate, can't they easily be taken advantage of by Terran? Just sent tanks to your enemies cliffs, through the ramp opposite the warp gates, and set them up to be able to hit the mins below. They also would block access to the mins under the ramp the tanks just went up, meaning that it just became 10 times as dangerous to expand to the far minerals. It could even stop the enemy from leaving his main through his main entrance, if the ranges work out.
Red classic.
"In short, their absurdities are so extreme that it is painful even to quote them."
It's OK, but quite bland. Nothing says, 'COMEPLAYME!'
-Not an experimental, so no problem.
There are some largish areas which are monotonous and could be broken up with sprites/doodads.
-Open areas are needed. I could go spice them up with bridge/ruins combos AFTER the maps finished being edited since its a pain in the ass to do/redo.
And the center ramps are too straight to look natural, which spoils it quite a lot.
-....Do you know anything about melee Zany?
As for the rest, I suggest you take a look at recent proleauge maps. The cliff elements are perfectly fine.
I tell this to a lot of people that come in here, so don't take it personal:
If you don't know what you're talking about, don't bother spouting nonsense, all it does is give the map maker useless feedback and make you look like a fool.
>be faceless void >mfw I have no face
By too straight, I mean they are just a long stretch of ramp, which is monotonous. A sprite or two could break it up easily. I didn't realise you haven't finished prettying it up.
As for the cliffs, I phrased it as a question, as I realise I don't know enough about melee to be sure. How DO you stop such a tank 'rush' to such cliffs?
My main focus when I look at melee is the terrain and artfulness, the cliff comment was more an aside, as the melee guide said to be careful about tankable mins.
Red classic.
"In short, their absurdities are so extreme that it is painful even to quote them."
Large straight ramps are commonplace in today's melee. Take a look at the promaps.
If you allow a drop onto your own cliff, and did not scout the factories for the tanks or ports for the dropships, then you probably deserved it. In TvT you should have your own port by then, in TvP you should have corsairs or HT for storms, and in TvZ you should have mutas by the time they go and drop a tank on your cliff. If all else fails, you'll have to blow up one of the warpgates.
In a good melee, balance comes first, aesthetics second. Decoration is a luxury added/finished after the balance is done properly.
>be faceless void >mfw I have no face
OK thanks.
Red classic.
"In short, their absurdities are so extreme that it is painful even to quote them."
Well, Protoss won't be able to FE due to the double nat entrance. That's about the extent of my knowledge.
None.
FTS I thought you were part of the CSL no?
Collegiate Star Leauge. I saw it on Teamliquid. They have a guy named ForTheSwarm partially in charge of it.
They're different people entirely
EDIT: To be a little more on topic, the nat looks impossible for any sort of FE by Protoss. Zergling all ins > Protoss, basically. As well, there is no room whatsoever for turrets at the nat. Muta harrass > the natural. And that's if the game gets that far - the inability to wall-in could be devestating against early lings.
Your logic as to doing that:
The mains do have rocky ground blocking wall-ins. I felt the map was pretty damn tight so I wanted to hurt T quite a bit to compensate, hence all the rocks/ruins.
What you're doing here is punishing a T's early game because of T's powerful mid-late game. Which means that Z or P will always keep that advantage early game (it also forces T to pull scvs to block scouting probes/drones - a huge drawback) and T will still retain the advantage of the tightness of the map later in the game (if it gets that far). This doesn't make a balanced map.
Keep in mind that you can make a map that balanced in two ways: it can play to every race's strengths or balance by making every race weaker. The former is better because people like playing a good game and being able to really use their race, rather than playing a weaker one even if their opponent is too.
1.1 Changes:
Tightened nats
Turret room added to nats
Mid ramps widened
Deco changed
Wall-ins now possible, but requires an extra building
1.2 Changes:
Tightened the outside edge of the nats as I originally intended to. I didn't notice I had forgotten till after I looked at the picture.
Fixed and equaled the rocky ground.
Yeah high ruins looks bad.
Anyways, you should convert that little junk of high ruins in the middle to an expo.
Overall, 8 out of 10. Pretty decent map.
Its good, but not "Python" good.
None.
The center highgrounds would NOT work as an expo. The entire mid would become tight(er) because of it and it would be a completely T map. Its not like there's a shortage of expos on it as-is, its 96x96.
(I meant to say chunk, not junk)
With that being said, I think its a pretty good map. If you want to make this a perfect map, I would extend the ramp that acts as a back door to an enemy base. Extend it so that it goes behind the main's mineral fields. Other then that, I think this is a decent map.
None.
Without going into anything about melee balance...
The map name has nothing to do with the map whatsoever....
Other than that, I love the "Backdoor -> Tertiary expansion" thing.. Is there a nerdy term for that?
None.
