Alright here comes TiKels with one of his posts about some crazy idea or something... But wait maybe he has stumbled across something, something worth looking at, YES its true.

Moving along...

Direct damage systems have been used to cause damage to units for awhile now, but have always been limited to using NON-human players due to the need for the ai script "Random Suicide Missions". A newly discovered system, similar to the original DDS (or direct damage system if you arent up to date with the latest acronyms), has jumped the boundaries of computer only usage by determining a way to force scarabs to detonate and deal damage. It is very simple. You move the scarabs to an unreachable location (Perhaps over water) and they blow up dealing damage. Simply done. Combine this with JaFF's scarab storage system and you have got everything you need to do this effectively. The only "downside" is the fact that it plays the animation of scarab death, but honestly thats not too big of a price to pay for faster usage, easier triggers, and human players, and more often then not people probably would prefer to have some sort of animation. Oh by the way, the system is titled EOS.

Edit!!!!: I compeltely forgot to put Pyro682 on this post, due to it being 2 o'clock in the morning when i wrote this. Me and pyro came up with this together, but it was more pyro then me, i just figured since i was bored i could put this on SEN for people to use.

Edit2: After testing some, and getting some PM's about this, and reviewing pyro682's testmap, i found that you need to wait SOME time but not one trigger cycle, inbetween where you move it to where it will explode, and moving it to unreachable terrain, you need a wait trigger that goes for 0 miliseconds. Pyro682's testmap originally has a 20 milisecond wait inbetween them.

Corrections? Bad grammar/spelling? Lack of clarity? Please reply here and tell me and i'll fix it because I wrote this at 2 in the morning. That is all.

OK so you move the scarab to the storage location, and when you want to make it deal damage, you move it to the unit, and then move it to water. Instead of going to water, it explodes?

Quote from zany_001[RCDF

OK so you move the scarab to the storage location, and when you want to make it deal damage, you move it to the unit, and then move it to water. Instead of going to water, it explodes?

If this is how this works, that's PRETTY FREAKIN AWSOME.

This is incredible. The possibilities here are almost endless.
Good job!

Okay I need you to elaborate on this, because I just set up a simple test map for myself and it's not working.

Basically, I have a couple reavers in a location, and another location centered on a DT. Scarabs shoot out and get stuck, then I have a trigger which does this:

Move 1 Scarab at Scarab/Reaver Location to DT Location
Move 1 Scarab at DT Location to Location Over Water

and instead what happens is the Scarab goes to the DT, then starts floating around almost like it's been junk yard dog'd. What'd I do wrong?

Does it have the same downsides as DDS such as having to delete the reavers because else, the units run away?

OK, I've seen the map but did not experiment or analyze the situation yet. Yes it works, and yes it is everything TiKels claims it to be. (and a bit more: don't forget about being able to upgrade your own damage)

Quote from Vrael

Okay I need you to elaborate on this, because I just set up a simple test map for myself and it's not working.

Basically, I have a couple reavers in a location, and another location centered on a DT. Scarabs shoot out and get stuck, then I have a trigger which does this:

Move 1 Scarab at Scarab/Reaver Location to DT Location
Move 1 Scarab at DT Location to Location Over Water

and instead what happens is the Scarab goes to the DT, then starts floating around almost like it's been junk yard dog'd. What'd I do wrong?

Most probably because you need to move the scarab to its target and then wait for atleast one trigger loop before trying to move it to an unwalkable locaition. Wait for TiKels to confirm this.

Quote from payne

Does it have the same downsides as DDS such as having to delete the reavers because else, the units run away?

Again, I haven't tested it but my guess is yes, it does have the same behavior. It is not a downside at all - it allows for much faster scarab creation as reavers shoot a scarab only when the onld one is dead.

And why is it called EOS? What does that stand for? O_o

Quote from JaFF

OK, I've seen the map but did not experiment or analyze the situation yet. Yes it works, and yes it is everything TiKels claims it to be. (and a bit more: don't forget about being able to upgrade your own damage)

Quote from Vrael

Okay I need you to elaborate on this, because I just set up a simple test map for myself and it's not working.

Basically, I have a couple reavers in a location, and another location centered on a DT. Scarabs shoot out and get stuck, then I have a trigger which does this:

Move 1 Scarab at Scarab/Reaver Location to DT Location
Move 1 Scarab at DT Location to Location Over Water

and instead what happens is the Scarab goes to the DT, then starts floating around almost like it's been junk yard dog'd. What'd I do wrong?

Most probably because you need to move the scarab to its target and then wait for atleast one trigger loop before trying to move it to an unwalkable locaition. Wait for TiKels to confirm this.

Yeah, it works after I wait the 1 trigger cycle. Basically just moved it to a temp location then moved it to the final destination, then the move to unwalkable. this is pretty sweet, gonna make for an awsome "Mana Shield" or w/e spell

did you get the move over water thing from that scarab spell map?

Gee, I'm glad I got credit and all of that- you know, I only discovered it and made the bloody test map. Oh well.

EOS = Epic Ownage System. It's a nickname that I made for the system, and it just stuck.

Here's the references and examples, if you want them.

I discovered this on a small side project, but the project just ended up being a test map. You must be player two, and you move towards the cliffs. The Vultures can sit still on the water too, if anyone's interested in that, either.
TiKels and I had a small disagreement, and I made a test map, and the test map shows the concept completely. (Make zealots)


And no, you don't need to wait for 1 trigger cycle to finish.

TiKels, I'm very disappointed in you.
If you need proof of this, I showed Lethal_Illusion this before I even showed TiKels. He can confirm that I invented this.

Quote from Pyro682

He can confirm that I invented this.

Idc about this jumble of who came up with what first, but I've seen this used in a korean map for well over 2 and a half years now. This is not a new thing, it was discovered by several people, whether on purpose or on pure coincidental messing around, but not many found a proper 'use' and never bothered conveying it to fellow people. Its an extremely simple thing to do, a scarab that is moved to a spot of terrain that it cant be moved onto will 'freeze' for approx. half a second (only need one move) and will simply explode when no other orders are given to it (causing damage around it).

It doesn't quite really matter if it's on a korean map or not, seeing as this server and their server are quite disconnected. They're (mostly) not on this site, and they're definately not bringing up ideas to our table, so who cares? We can't use most of their ideas anyways, so what possible weight could it possibly have that it's on some rare conspicuous korean map that noone's ever heard of? And that's IF you actually saw it and didn't mistake it for something else, whatever that may be.


The point is that I was not allowed to share was I discovered. Ruins the moment for me quite a lot. It may not matter to you, but it does to me.

Quote from Pyro682

Gee, I'm glad I got credit and all of that- you know, I only discovered it and made the bloody test map. Oh well.

EOS = Epic Ownage System. It's a nickname that I made for the system, and it just stuck.

Here's the references and examples, if you want them.

I discovered this on a small side project, but the project just ended up being a test map. You must be player two, and you move towards the cliffs. The Vultures can sit still on the water too, if anyone's interested in that, either.
TiKels and I had a small disagreement, and I made a test map, and the test map shows the concept completely. (Make zealots)


And no, you don't need to wait for 1 trigger cycle to finish.

TiKels, I'm very disappointed in you.
If you need proof of this, I showed Lethal_Illusion this before I even showed TiKels. He can confirm that I invented this.

If everything you said is true then what tikels has done is just as bad, if not worse, than map stealing. Do we ban confirmed map stealers here at SEN?

Quote from Mp)Sorrow_Faith

Quote from Pyro682

He can confirm that I invented this.

Idc about this jumble of who came up with what first, but I've seen this used in a korean map for well over 2 and a half years now. This is not a new thing, it was discovered by several people, whether on purpose or on pure coincidental messing around, but not many found a proper 'use' and never bothered conveying it to fellow people. Its an extremely simple thing to do, a scarab that is moved to a spot of terrain that it cant be moved onto will 'freeze' for approx. half a second (only need one move) and will simply explode when no other orders are given to it (causing damage around it).

2 and a half years? I'm calling BS. I doubt you have proof to back up your claim.

I'm pretty sure Pyro was in on this too, I remember seeing a test map where he was working with scarabs exploding near unwalkable terrain dealing damage, which is pretty close to this.

Both of you should post screenshots of the creation dates of your map files.

No, TiKels never even made a map. He didn't even post them. Those are my maps that I posted.

Quote from ClansAreForGays

2 and a half years? I'm calling BS. I doubt you have proof to back up your claim.

http://www.staredit.net/files/1210/ (This is link to R26 of WAF. Note : Letters/numbers designate the version, Radeath doesn't skip from v1 to R26 people, there were older versions that came out before this)
http://intothemap.com/gnu/v3idx6.php (If your korean, you can easily see when the first waf map was made by browsing around)
Radeath has implemented this 'exploding scarab' in his map since the beginning of waf. And waf, is VERY old. When he was messing around with scarabs (early on during R2-R4, he accidently discovered the exploding scarab thing, and his friends thought it was cool and wanted him to put it in his map, so he did. Thus Archer's caladbolg was born, and Nanoha's "FG" combo as well.) A couple of koreans also have this in some of their maps.
and a friend of mines and radeath, who also happened to test WAF since the beginning : ekddl4578 (who is never active) would also know about this.
I'd be suprised if everyone knew about this, because it was never made "public". And small things things discovered on accident hardly go mainstream. I bet other people that we dont know have already discovered this, whether it be pure coincidence or trying to better their understanding of scarabs. They just never found a reason to make it widespread, or tell everyone and whatnot.

p.s. I'd like to add that a simple thing (yet simplicity wins) like this isn't "invented" but more so, 'discovered', and its near-impossible to determine the first person to have stumbled upon this. It's more like a 'side-effect' of messing with scarabs.

Quote from Mp)Sorrow_Faith

Quote from ClansAreForGays

2 and a half years? I'm calling BS. I doubt you have proof to back up your claim.

http://www.staredit.net/files/1210/ (This is link to R26 of WAF. Note : Letters/numbers designate the version, Radeath doesn't skip from v1 to R26 people, there were older versions that came out before this)
http://intothemap.com/gnu/v3idx6.php (If your korean, you can easily see when the first waf map was made by browsing around)
Radeath has implemented this 'exploding scarab' in his map since the beginning of waf. And waf, is VERY old. When he was messing around with scarabs (early on during R2-R4, he accidently discovered the exploding scarab thing, and his friends thought it was cool and wanted him to put it in his map, so he did. Thus Archer's caladbolg was born, and Nanoha's "FG" combo as well.) A couple of koreans also have this in some of their maps.
and a friend of mines and radeath, who also happened to test WAF since the beginning : ekddl4578 (who is never active) would also know about this.
I'd be suprised if everyone knew about this, because it was never made "public". And small things things discovered on accident hardly go mainstream. I bet other people that we dont know have already discovered this, whether it be pure coincidence or trying to better their understanding of scarabs. They just never found a reason to make it widespread, or tell everyone and whatnot.

This case seems to be the most convincing. I don't think it is appropriate to say that Pyro of TiKels invented this. They developed it.

Please stay on topic, which is awesomeness of this system, its possible applications and optimization of its triggers.

EDIT:
I think we should come up sith a better name for it. >_<

SDS
Scarab Damage System.

Or we can just keep it DDS. There are many variations to the "kills to cash perfect" method, they are all still called "kills to cash perfect". A non-descriptive title of the system doesn't help anything. Since this is simply a modified DDS, I don't see how it needs renaming.

As far as who developed/found what, it doesn't matter. Whoever found it first obviously didn't spread it far, and we have Tikels to thank for bringing this to our attention, even if he just copied someone else.

PSDS, Players' Scarabs Damage System
Or you can go HSDS for Humans'