Staredit Network > Forums > SC1 UMS Mapmaking Assistance > Topic: Dodging with triggers
Dodging with triggers
Jul 29 2009, 5:24 pm
By: poison_us  

Jul 29 2009, 5:24 pm poison_us Post #1

Back* from the grave

Alright, I know this is a relatively simple question, but what's the best, in terms of lag and difficulty, method for ordering an observer away from zerglings owned by 4 different players?
I want to know so that the players [3 of them, btw] are forced to get the observer in a corner, surround it, and then proceed to converge on its location.

I would also like for the method to use as few triggers as possible, yet be impossible to catch without teamwork.




Jul 29 2009, 5:27 pm Falkoner Post #2



Mobile grids man ;) They're hawt, and you're going to have to make triggers for basically every combination of marines in certain directions.



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Jul 29 2009, 5:31 pm JaFF Post #3



Even conceptually, it is a idea that will probably not work or be very 'sloppy' - Zerglings move faster than Observers, even if the Observer is upgraded and the Zergling is not.

What are you trying to do? Is there a possibility to replace the Observer with a ground unit? That would greatly simplify things - you'd be able to use a Mobile Grid without making any workarounds for the air-unit-disrupting-mobile-grids problem.



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Jul 29 2009, 5:36 pm poison_us Post #4

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Quote from JaFF
Even conceptually, it is a idea that will probably not work or be very 'sloppy' - Zerglings move faster than Observers, even if the Observer is upgraded and the Zergling is not.

move unit to create slowlings--they won't be fast enough until after they catch it. Or, seeing as how that might make it less appealing, I could switch it to a ground. Either way...I had kinda thought about trying to make a mobile grid on the ground...but that might be disrupted by the edges, and the zerglings themselves. In either case, mobile grids are laggy, no?

From whence came the marines, Falkoner?




Jul 29 2009, 5:41 pm Falkoner Post #5



Quote
From whence came the marines, Falkoner?

Sorry, read it wrong, otherwise I woulda said the same as JaFF, and if you're not doing much else in your map, a mobile grid here or there isn't going to kill you, just make it so it's not constantly going, only remake the grid when the observer moves out of a location, which you may want to make inverted.



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Jul 29 2009, 5:45 pm poison_us Post #6

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Aight...I always thought mobile grids would lag the crap outta me. I just got back from taking a glance at the tutorial, and one question: could I remove, rather than give each unit, after centering the locations on it? It seems like this would reduce lag, and make for a less visible grid...




Jul 29 2009, 5:48 pm Falkoner Post #7



Yes, you can remove them, it basically does the same thing, as long as you don't need to later reuse the same units in the grid.



None.

Jul 29 2009, 5:56 pm JaFF Post #8



Quote from poison_us
move unit to create slowlings--they won't be fast enough until after they catch it. Or, seeing as how that might make it less appealing, I could switch it to a ground. Either way...I had kinda thought about trying to make a mobile grid on the ground...but that might be disrupted by the edges, and the zerglings themselves. In either case, mobile grids are laggy, no?
1. Replace Observer with a ground unit
2. Make borders out of units to denote the area in which the action wil lbe taking place or surround it with unwalkable terran and then, using a Mobile Grid, detect when you het an unwalkable terrain tile. I've done this before (a computer vulture that always runs away from player-controlled zealots) and I used the first bordering method. It works just fine.
3. Ground units do not disrupt Mobile Grids in any way.

The general outline of the triggers is the following:
You will have 8 locations around your victim unit (I'll refer to it as 'victim') placed with a Mobile Grid. When any of the players bring units to these locations, the victim is ordered to move in the opposite direction via a Mobile Grid. It is also possible to consider cases when players bring several units to different locations around the victim simultaneously. Don't forget to check whether the direction you ordered the victim to move to has the arena border in it or not; if it does have the border, choose a direction parallel to the border to help it escape.

Through testing, you must find out how many Mobile Grid 'steps' away must you order the victim to move. You need this to avoid the victim running in short 'leaps' that are less effective because of acceleration (so it may be wiser to pick a unit that does not accelerate!) and possible pathfinding problems.



None.

Jul 29 2009, 5:58 pm Falkoner Post #9



Quote
3. Ground units do not disrupt Mobile Grids in any way.

Yeah, but he was thinking about using a ground unit mobile grid to fix the Observer offsetting issue.



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Jul 29 2009, 6:04 pm poison_us Post #10

Back* from the grave

So the triggers would look something like this:

Triggers


Then put triggers detecting where zerglings are, and ordering the unit away from them?

EDIT:
Quote from Falkoner
Quote
3. Ground units do not disrupt Mobile Grids in any way.

Yeah, but he was thinking about using a ground unit mobile grid to fix the Observer offsetting issue.
I decided against this. I'm probably just gonna move the observer away, then move it back after the grid is made. The ground units would be offset by zerglings anyways.




Jul 29 2009, 6:13 pm JaFF Post #11



Quote from poison_us
So the triggers would look something like this:

Triggers


Then put triggers detecting where zerglings are, and ordering the unit away from them?
Two things:

1. You're moving the big location "Location 0" on the "Flag" unit after you've detected that the players brought some Zerglings into it. You should center this location on the Flag unit before detecting the Zerglings. That way, you always have updated information and your AI is not making any decisions based on old information.

2. I suggest using a 1.5x1.5 grid. Zerglings are quite fast, so they may be able to rush through the 1x1 grid before the AI can arrange a response. This is, of course, subject to your testing. If you find out that 1x1 is fine, there is not reason not to go with it.



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