To me, all of the mods on SEN look the same; a big jumbled mess. It's because everyone uses kitbashes. They're ugly. They break the perspective. Graphics are just as important as gameplay because they convey the gameplay. If they look totally random and incoherent, the gameplay suffers.

That's my honest opinion. Take it as you will.

[quote=name:IskatuMesk]To me, all of the mods on SEN look the same; a big jumbled mess. It's because everyone uses kitbashes. They're ugly.[\quote]

This x 100000
Chopping up sc graphics to make new graphics still looks like sc, just all messy and retarded.

Well, not everyone has epic 3D modeling skills, yah know. Now actually play the mod so you can actualy comment on something that matters.

I'd rather have a kitbash mod than a mod with all new models (unless they look exactly like kitbashes). No offense, Iskatu.

I have to agree.

While most kitbashes are messy, and I admit a large number of mine are, most new models don't look like they fit in SC. You have to remodel everything for the entire race or none at all just so that things fit together. I'd prefer a race that's messy but matches rather than one that looks like it came out of a game made after SC itself.

Pretty much what Excalibur said, again. If we could find some sort of render process, or texture setup to make 3D modeled units look like they fit into SC, then I'd be modeling almost all of my units. But I've been trying to find a way to do that for god only knows how long, and I've failed every time. So thus, we just use kitbashes because there's nothing else we can really do. Some, if not most, are ugly, but you get used to them after a while, seeing as there really isn't anything else we can do.

Quote from Polaris[MM]

Pretty much what Excalibur said, again. If we could find some sort of render process, or texture setup to make 3D modeled units look like they fit into SC, then I'd be modeling almost all of my units. But I've been trying to find a way to do that for god only knows how long, and I've failed every time. So thus, we just use kitbashes because there's nothing else we can really do. Some, if not most, are ugly, but you get used to them after a while, seeing as there really isn't anything else we can do.

Rory has been able to model infantry units in 3DS Max and render them so that resulting images nearly perfectly matches SC's scheme.

Quote from FlyingHat

Quote from Polaris[MM]

Pretty much what Excalibur said, again. If we could find some sort of render process, or texture setup to make 3D modeled units look like they fit into SC, then I'd be modeling almost all of my units. But I've been trying to find a way to do that for god only knows how long, and I've failed every time. So thus, we just use kitbashes because there's nothing else we can really do. Some, if not most, are ugly, but you get used to them after a while, seeing as there really isn't anything else we can do.

Rory has been able to model infantry units in 3DS Max and render them so that resulting images nearly perfectly matches SC's scheme.

He should write a tutorial on it or something, it'd be a big help. Still doesn't help with ships/buildings though. Unless hes figured that out too.

Quote from TriggR_HappE

-stuff-

I admitted my mod had its fault, yes, but your claiming it was nothing more than 'a few clicks in datedit' was completely uncalled for, and completely wrong.

And everyone else, let's talk about the mod, k?

Quote from TassadarZeratul

Well, not everyone has epic 3D modeling skills, yah know. Now actually play the mod so you can actualy comment on something that matters.

Oh please. You exaggarate my capabilities so goddamn much it's ridiculous. I am not a good modeler. I am fucking terrible. Anyone who has spent a year in college with 3ds max or maya will destroy the shit I've made over 10 years. If a modder has any respect for his work he'll put some effort into the graphics and sounds. This here is just a minimod, but if you just lazily throw it together, you get this kind of feedback. If you don't like it; tough. Welcome to my world. This is why mod night is dying/dead. This is why the modding community is stale.

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I'd prefer a race that's messy but matches rather than one that looks like it came out of a game made after SC itself.

Sure. That's understandable; if any of the kitbashes actually fit or anything. Take those new protoss buildings for example. They look nice as fractal art but in reality they destroy the illusion of perspective. Most of the kitbashes out there look like a goddamn mess. Come on, missile launchers from the tower on a wraith?

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Some, if not most, are ugly, but you get used to them after a while, seeing as there really isn't anything else we can do.

The only reason you guys accept this stuff is, as you said, because it's all you can do. But that's only because that's all you've tried to do. None of you guys are idiots. The fear of doing something new is what's holding you back. It's time to change this. I will be the catalyst of this change. I'm going to kickstart this community if it's the last thing I do; and it probably will be. Guys, I'm retiring. I'm calling it. When AO is done, I'm out of here. I hope to help set you up on something new and exciting before I go.

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If we could find some sort of render process, or texture setup to make 3D modeled units look like they fit into SC, then I'd be modeling almost all of my units.

Right. Here's the first legitimate excuse I've heard! And I have just the answer.

http://www.doack.campaigncreations.org/KA_Commandship.max (That needs max 2009, I'm sure you can get it)

I normally don't release my content, much less my source content, but there you have it - the old Kaloth Command Ship. What you should be using this scene for is for rendering. It has my camera system HKS set up for me. Perfect for rendering SC. Just throw in your models, configure them, set the size you want, render by-camera. Someone more experienced in max can batch process the whole thing; I don't know how to. You guys seriously overestimate my understanding of graphics processing. It's my weakest skill by far.

Now someone's going to say they need textures. Send me a PM. I'll arrange something for you. I hope you have a good internet connection.

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He should write a tutorial on it or something, it'd be a big help. Still doesn't help with ships/buildings though. Unless hes figured that out too.

Ships and buildings. Gotcha.

Gonna hook you guys up with something brb

I'm not gonna make you retype that, Mesk, but let's keep future discussion to PMs or make a new topic.

@ importance of dazzling graphics and other eye candy:
After playing a lot of different mods, I'd have to say that altering the gameplay via some nice melee.trg, exe edits and innovative tech-trees wows me the most now. And not just any new gameplay change either. New gameplay doesn't necessarily equate to a good mod tho. The new gameplay has to be coherent and well organized. I think LordA is the best hands down when it comes to creative gameplay. I'm sure most would agree.

Dazzling graphics are great too, but you have to realize that Starcraft's graphics are perfect just the way they are. The reason is these were full-time paid artists working for months and months at a time with extensive background training. Hobbyist can certainly attain some of the professionalism that is SCraft art, but not on such a huge scale.

.. so that's my soapbox contribution to this little off-topic debate.

Now as for this little mod, are we playing this for modnight tonight? .. I will be on at 11pm WCoast Time.