I recently (read today) started working on an RPG map which has a very strong emphasis on spellcasting. For this reason, I need a lot of spells. I have spells organized into groups of (at least) four, which I'm calling "tomes". Each player may only have one tome equipped at once. Each tome is represented by a unit. I need nine such tomes, and am somewhat stuck for ideas.

Currently, I have the following tomes:

Tome of Conjuration: (Probe)
Constructs Pylons, Shield Batteries, Dragoons, and Reavers. (Dragoons are created by building a Photon Cannon which turns into a Dragoon. Reavers are created by building a Cybernetics Core which turns into a Reaver.) Note that Pylons have pretty high HP, so they make good walls. Also, there can only be one Shield Battery out at a time, and as long as the Probe is out the Battery is constantly set to 100% energy.


Tome of Necromancy: (Dark Archon)
Can cast Feedback, Mind Control, and Maelstrom. Also revives dead enemies as undead (Hydralisks)

Tome of Restoration: (Medic)
Can cast Healing, Restore, and Optical Flare. Can also restore mana to the players.

Tome of the Swarm: (Carrier)
Can summon Scourges, Infested Terrans, and Broodlings, and can build Intercepters.

Tome of the Vortex: (Science Vessel)
Can use all of the normal Science Vessel spells (but is not a Detector), and can create clones of itself.

Tome of Golem Creation: (SCV)
The SCV can build Bunkers, Marines, Firebats, or Ghosts (no spells). (Marines, Firebats, and Ghosts are created by building a Supply Depot, Missile Turret, or Academy, respectively.) There is a maximum of one Bunker at a time. Any unit summoned by this tome which enters the Bunker is fully healed. (The players and the SCV may not enter the Bunker.)

Tome of the Guardian Elemental: (Vulture)
The Vulture may turn into a Goliath, a Siege Tank (may not unsiege), or Wraith. (The Wraith may cloak and starts out cloaked, but has very low stats.) It may transform back into a Vulture or directly into other forms.

Tome of Death: (Queen)
The Queen can cast Ensnare normally, but no other spells. It may summon a "Stygian Assassin" (Dark Templar) under it (goes away after attacking once), force enemy units under it to JYD for a few seconds, or create burrowed Zerg around it that cause anything that touches them to take damage. (They only last for a few seconds or until activated.)

Post has been edited 11 time(s), last time on Dec 31 2008, 8:57 pm by TassadarZeratul. Reason: Added ToD, removed ToF for now.

Tome 4: (Mutalisk) (Swarmmaster)
Can summon a swarm of scourge/infested terrans, broodlings, or zerglings. Can sacrifice one of them to restore a little HP to the players.

I'm not sure if you have any air unit enemies, so if you don't, scrap the scourges of course.

EDIT: You require more vespene gas.

Post has been edited 4 time(s), last time on Dec 29 2008, 6:43 pm by ForTheSwarm.

Good one, FTS. *adds*

EDIT: *mines more vespane gas*

how about reavers? I call it ice bomb!

Summon 2 templars that use lightning. I call them static shocks. With further mana you can combine them both into a the archon, i call it Storm Cloud!

So summon a pair of Templars? Not quite sure about that...

But, you did give me an idea: Create a High Templar which can use Psionic Storm and transform into a DT or an Archon. I still need a fourth spell though...

Oh, I have another one: A (blinded) Science Vessel that can use all of its normal spells and create Hallucinations of itself. (The tome units are not invulnerable, so creating Hallucinations would let it stay alive longer.)

More information is needed. Proper help can't be given without understanding the context of your spell system.

Upgrades:
1) What upgrades are available? Only +Weapon upgrades? If so how many?
2) What about spell upgrades? Is there an energy (for spellcasters, not gas) gaining option, or a damage increase option? IE does casting Feedback get you multiple Dark Archons upon casting or something?

Tomes:
1) Is it possible to switch between tomes quickly, or are players stuck with only one tome for an extended period of time?
2) For the same tome, how do you differentiate different spells? IE I use Dark Archon tome; what happens? Do I get a Dark Archon that can cast any of the three spells, or are you somehow enforcing only one particular spell (through computer AI perhaps) to be casted?
2a) If I own the Dark Archon, is the Dark Archon timed?
2b) If I do not own the Dark Archon, can I switch between different spells of the same tome quickly?

how about spawning a Lurker under you so it strikes spikes at the baddies?
Or you can summon a transport ship with high defense so it can transport somewhere?


I have a cool idea where you can use an observer and calling it "Spell Target" where you can spawn an arbiter to teleport you out!

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Dec 29 2008, 7:37 pm by NudeRaider. Reason: merged posts

@SelfPossessed:

Upgrades: Each tome starts with only one spell available, and you must research the other spells, which might be considered an "upgrade". You may also upgrade the energy the tome units start with.

Tomes:
1: You change tomes at a Zerg Hiveby morphing units, so you can't change tomes if there are no Larvae. This is one of the reasons I selected the Hive.
2: You can use any of the spells you have unlocked. eg. If I have a Dark Archon equipped and all the spells unlocked, I can use Feedback, Mind Control, or Maelstrom, assuming the DA has enough energy. If I have enough mana, I can also use the reanimation spell. (Note that the unit's energy is used for the cost of all spells actually cast BY the tome unit [eg. Feedback], while the character's mana is used to pay the cost of the spells that aren't [eg. the reanimation spell].)
2a: Tome units last until destroyed. You can reequip a tome unit immediately after it is destroyed, assuming you have enough mana to do so.

EDIT:
@RISKED911: I'd prefer not to use Arbiters because of the cloaking field. As for the Lurkers: The characters also have spells that are unique to that character and not part of a tome, and one of the characters has a Lurker spawning attack, so I don't want to use Lurkers again.

Oh btw RISKED, when NudeRaider merged your double post, he accidentally removed the blue from the post...

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Dec 29 2008, 7:54 pm by TassadarZeratul.

Several additional questions then.

1) How do you get enough exp/money to upgrade? IE must I kill enemies with a specific tome to upgrade that particular tome? Or can I kill with a separate tome and upgrade another tome? Or does casting a spell get me exp for that tome?
2) How will medic restore energy to spellcasters? Is it just set to 100%?
3) How difficult is it to get a level up? Also, are level ups shared between players?

And an additional word of advice. Label each spell of a tome as a level. Example.

1: If you kill an enemy in any way, you get XP. You can use XP to level up any of your tomes, as well as your character's other stats (damage, armor, mana, HP, etc...)
2. It restores mana to the players, not energy to spellcasters. Mana is what you use to change tomes and cast some spells (eg. the DA's reanimation spell or the Science Vessel's Hallucination spell, or your character's non-tome-related spells.)
3. Leveling is pretty hard. You will not be able to unlock all the spells before the end of the game (unless you sit there farming for twelve hours, which would be really boring), so you must choose which tomes you want to upgrade.

It doesn't work like that... You can choose any spell you want, you don't have to learn spells in a particular order. For example, if I had the Swarm tome, I could get Summon Scourge, then Summon Zerglings, then Summon Infested Terrans, or I could get Summon Zerglings, then Summon Infested Terrans, then Summon Scourges, or I could get Summon Zerglings, then Summon Scourges, then Summon Infested Terrans, etc. The exception is that when you get a new tome, you automatically receive one particular spell from that tome: eg. if I researched the Necromancy tome, I automatically get Feedback, and can't learn any spells from that tome until the next level-up.

EDIT: Tome names are up. They are probably going to change, though.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Dec 29 2008, 9:25 pm by TassadarZeratul. Reason: *insert over 9000 reasons here*

It seems like you're going for something really simple. Alright.

One more question:
1) Can I get units from two tomes out at the same time? IE Pull out the Medic tome, then pull out the Dark Archon tome. Or something similar. My suggestions that follow assume that switching tomes switches out all of your units.

In that case, players will basically:
1) Upgrade the weapon that gives the most damage per upgrade to damage so they can farm
2) After getting a decent chunk of that, upgrade 1 or 2 support times that they like

My suggestion? Make a tome or two that has a WEAKER damaging unit (gets very little from +upgrades but does benefit) but gets double or triple the exp of other tome forms. Make high damaging tomes gain half as much exp. This will give players more options. They pick 1 farming tome that will NOT be an end game tome (like the damager tomes). They pick 1 damage based tome and perhaps 1-2 support tomes.

Take out photon cannons. Their damage can't be upgraded, they can't move, and they don't work well with shield batteries. Give the probe another attacking unit instead.

Make the Vessel's hallucinations an attackable ground unit. The Vessel is low on the priority list.

If you do use psi storm, make sure there are high armored enemies out there. That will make it more useful later on despite not being upgradable.

Make one of the levels for spellcasters capable of summoning an additional copy of the same unit. Take the Science Vessel for example. Irradiate has a long cooldown. However, if you irradiate two separate units, the damage will stack on nearby units. A final level of +1 Science Vessel would drastically boost Irradiate's power as you can quickly Irradiate two units at the same time, getting double the splash. It's also the Vessel's only chance of competing with Psi Storm's damage. Actually, I'd rather have multiple upgrades for multiple Vessels than EMP. Say EMP and Halluc were replaced by +1 Vessel. Then I could get 3 Irradiated Def Matrixed vessels flying around.

Perhaps have a tome with a SCV that can build bunkers. The bunker has low hp but high armor. Repair is medium speed. The bunker heals all infantry inside it to 100%. You can summon low hp infantry attacking units to load into it. If you want it simple, keep it this way. If you want players to work harder, you can make it so there's a max of 1 bunker, but more than 4 maximum summonable units. IE force players to micro units in and out of their bunker as the bunker heals their low hp units instantly.

Try a metal based transforming build. You can morph into a Tank/Vult/Goliath/add some other spell. Make tank not be able to unsiege. Gol for antiair. Tank for attacking. Vult for running and setting spider mines. Or you can use spider mines for another form.

You can also make spider mines weaker and give them to the medic as an ability. Blinding a mine means that it'll unburrow when a unit is closer to it. It increases its chance of surviving.

I'm also going to assume that Dark Swarm is overpowered. A defiler with dark swarm who can summon high damage low hp Lurkers would be pretty funny.

No. You can only have one tome out at once. Also, changing tomes costs mana and has a cooldown, which when combined with that fact means that you have to be careful to switch only when it is very beneficial.

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here...

How about Dragoons?

How about Photon Cannon Hallucinations? I'd assume that those would be pretty high on the priority list. Or Hallucination Siege Mode Dukes.

Okay. Good idea, will do.

I like this one. Added.

I can't believe that I didn't think of this one myself. Added. The fourth spell will be transform to Dropship.

Hm... Not sure about this one. Medic's are supposed to be straight healing/defense. (Optical Flare is a defensive spell because it's only useful when you're being chased by a high-level enemy or if an enemy Detector is screwing with you. [Three of the characters can cloak: Two are Ghosts, and the third can turn into a DT or a Lurker as two of his character-specific spells.])

Yes, that would be pretty funny. But waaaaaaay OP.

Oh, SelfPossessed, do you want to be credited in the map? You've been really helpful.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Dec 29 2008, 10:09 pm by TassadarZeratul. Reason: One != two

I edited this part too late for you to see it.

For the medic, being able to summon multiple medics would be nice too. You can semi wall with medics then. Combo it with another player using probe to fill in the holes inbetween pylons. It's then a perfect wall, though it does screw Scarabs over. Flare isn't really useful against high lvl enemies unless they're the ONLY enemy unit around.

For the exp thing, think of it this way. Have a Marine/Firebat/Whatever form with stim. Make it have only +1 per upgrade whereas other tomes, for example the Probe's Dragoon's, might get +5 per upgrade. Let's say killing an enemy Marine nets you 50 exp. If you're in the Dragoon form, you'll only receive 50% of that exp, or 25 exp total. If you're in Marine form, you'll receive like 200% of that exp, or 100 exp total. So, even though the Dragoon might kill faster, it will be worse for farming. The goal is to create several "farming" tomes and several "end game deal damage" tomes so players can pick which ones they like the most. It forces player to not overly rely on a single tome; they will need a LEAST 1 farming and 1 damage tome, and if they're good, 1 or 2 support times. Mind you this is only an example, you have to think the specific units and their upgrades through yourself.

Credit not needed. I'm not a whore for publicity.

Well, there are a lot of enemies with shields/spells. (In particular, some of the larger monsters can summon Corsairs, which are nasty with their Disruption Web and their ability to shoot down flying tome units. There are also monsters which rely on shields for a good chunk of their HP, and I'm debating throwing some enemy Medics in as well.) I'll replace Hallucination with summoning a copy of the Vessel, with each copy costing progressively more mana to summon and starting with progressively less energy.

Then you can use Tome of the Swarm's Zerglings and keep a Medic nearby. (Units summoned by a tome stay if the the tome is destroyed or swapped out.)

Or if you intend to use your cloaking ability at all, which is almost essential except at the beginning. I'm willing to bet someone will grab Tome of Healing just for Optical Flare in 99% of games.

I understand, but I'd prefer not to do that. There will still be some tomes which are much better for farming and some which are much better for boss fights and stuff.

Asking for credit when you designed a good percentage of the tomes isn't being a publicity whore. I don't like not crediting people unless they actually say "DON'T FUCKING CREDIT ME" (Not literally, but you get the idea). So unless you say that, you're getting credited. (And only say that if you mean it, please.)

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Dec 29 2008, 10:59 pm by TassadarZeratul.

Define what units are summons.

In what context? There are two different meanings:

1. Units which a player creates to help in combat (eg. the tome units, or the Marines/Fbats/Ghosts that the Tome of Golem Creation [the SCV] can create, etc.)

2. Monsters which are created by bosses and some of monsters. For example, one monster you'll occasionally encounter is the Plague Elemental (Ultralisk), which is powerful just with its normal attacks, but can also summon Poison Elementals (Archons) to assist it. Another example is the Outpost (Command Center), which creates hero Marines and the occasional Siege Tank when you attack it.

Or are you asking what units can be summoned by enemies? I'm not quite sure yet. Corsair summons are a definite, and there are probably going to be a few enemies which can summon Science Vessels (with no spells, [besides EMP Shockwave, depending on what summoned it]). Otherwise, probably just random combat units like the Marines and Archons I already mentioned.

EDIT: I think I see what you're asking. Are you asking what units are counted as summons and thus stay behind when the player switches tomes or the tome unit dies? Basically everything except the tome unit itself, although when the Science Vessel clones itself, the clones also go away when the Vessel is killed/swapped out.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Dec 30 2008, 12:46 am by TassadarZeratul.

Tome of Blades- (Ultralisk)
Blade Shield: Has zealots that are constantly moved to the Ultralisk, which has low life.
Blade Dance: Can seperate the blades from the Ultralisk, but the Ultralisk has low life so it might die.
Transform: Turns the Ultralisk into the hero Ultralisk, but loses some/all of the zealots for the duration.
If the Ultralisk dies, the zealots die too.
The zealots are not invincible.

Tome (Dropship) (Bombmaster)
Can drop / fire bombs towards player and also unload some units.

Tome (Defiler) (Spiker)
Can spawn a lruker under himself for some seconds so he shots 1 spike. Also can spawn infested terrans because it has no hobbys.

Tome (Archon) (Suicider [?])
Can always attack and it should have an Irridiate aura on it.
When he is going to day he makes "boom" and deals many dmg to heros which were nearby (direct-damage-dealing without vHP)

Tome (Reaver) (Sieger)
He can normally attack, sometimes teleports via recall and sometimes has mass scarab attack [other reavers somewhere else which shots same time]

Tome (Ghost) (Infantry)
He can call backup (2 rines and one bat) to support him. He normally attacks and can lockdown. Cloak should be disabled

If I posted something wrong don't blame me, I'm kinda tired lol

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Dec 30 2008, 12:55 am by DeVouReR.

@ForTheSwarmAiur:

*confused*

Also, I need the hero Ultralisk for the Plague Elemental (a monster), and there need to be four spells... I could fix the first problem by changing Transform to turn him into an Archon or something, I guess. It still needs another spell though...

@DeVouReR: Uhm... *confused* There are supposed to be 4 spells per tome...

Oh btw, I fixed a nooby mistake in the first post... The Tome of Conjuration (formerly the Tome of Summoning, but I like Conjuration better) creates Shield Batteries, not Photon Cannons... *facepalms* Also finally got around to updating the Tome of the Vortex.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Dec 30 2008, 1:53 am by TassadarZeratul.

Uhh I made 5 units each with a spell... you may combinate them somehow... I think the ideas are pretty nice