I personally believe that Centreri is the problem. He was the first and only one to complain about the Action Points, I removed it and later caused confusion. He is the first person to beg for a super military power and obliterate Echo in "One" game month (One real life week). He is complaining about a pity example that hasn't happened yet, but I asked him to learn from his actions. Out of all players, he is a real nuisance.

HailFire, there are no rules. The only thing players need to know are the outcomes of their actions.

This game is already too messed up to save, I think. Starting a new thread would be a good idea. Then we can work out all the confusion (*glares at cent*) BEFORE the game starts.

Actually the game is still good and can still be saved. Every nation, especially the four primary nations (In which Centreri could do little to interupt), are all stable and okay. Only that Centreri asked me to remove the Action Points, made me make an example aftermath of his actions, and is really complaining. I'm going to re-add the Action Points whether he likes it or not.

Actually, I won't leave. I'll stick with this. But moar organization next game please?

And Cent and KrayZee, maybe you could argue via PM?

Now, how about I go poke Dling to come back, and any other leavers I didn't notice?

Probably not a bad idea.

Still, guidelines would be nice. For example, what does one action point do? How long does research take? How equal is everyone, really? For example, my nation, being landlocked, focuses mostly on infantry as military forces. Are they only just as good as the infantry in France (yellow, forgot the name), despite them having a focus on naval technology? How do we gauge the strength of our forces, anyway? Maybe you could add a distance guide to the map, so we can estimate the travel time for our forces? How much money do those forces cost?

The list is nigh-endless. It's like D&D: You don't need hard and fast rules, but you do need guidelines to help people find out what they can do and how they can do it.

EDIT:
Remember: This is effectively a beta-test of the (as yet incomplete) game engine. Future games will have moar epic.

The next game (If it exists) will be hosted by someone else. And I believe he agreed.

No, I need the PMs for secret plans.

You never left.

I guess so, I'm going to write it all in a notepad and will be downloadable in the first post. To keep myself honest, it may be tomorrow morning or to the next few days.

If you'd like, I could re-organize the system so everyone shuts up.

I would quit.

http://www.staredit.net/topic/5417/

First post heavily updated.

I would be less blunt, and more useful.

I think you should kill the super-omg-i-do-this-for-epic-win bullshit. You invest in economy, agriculture, military (naval or land), infrastructure, espionage?, happiness (religion, arts, etc), you attack / defend, move troops (need troop movement points or some shit here at the very least, either country to country = 1 turn or inch = 1 movement point or SOMETHING). Basic stuffs. You could do a little "oh, i'm doing this to try to produce this outcome," like reasoning, but no "omg i invest in oil so now i control it and omg, i trade it and trade embargo and bs and now I'm god). Krayzee should then process your basic moves for some kind of logical outcome, maybe even predefined but hidden outcomes (50k into military = bows, for example), for an epic story. Krayzee really needs to think about how economy/arg/military will all play out, what is our food to citizen ratios / starting surplus, etc and try to fill in only small gaps as he goes along, not huge ones.
You are probably going to need some type of attack equation, based on troops, tech, land advantage (obv it should not be an equal fight if we are on my land), maybe some type of tactical play into it (can we flank?) but that gets a bit more complicated on a picture game, less so if our moves are hidden until the time is up.

Perhaps a system where we have:

100 allocated points

Research: 5 points
Troops: 3 points

Etcetera...

BTW, I'm going to allow A_of-s_T to run an actual game of Diplomacy once this game is "done". It will only be 7 players (one of whom will be me) like the actual board game. Though it is a board game, the rules and the map are available online for those interested to prepare themselves.

I would like to request to be autoed for that game.

In an effort to keep the game going, I am using 80% of my Military force to invade Kievan Rus. The other 20% is to remain in the homeland to train and defend, should it be necessitated. 5,000,000

I'll spend 50,000,000 Kon into Weapons / Armor / War Materials Development, Acquisition and Research, and Military Strategy, Tactics and Training techniques.
I'll also spend 100,000,000 Kon into Civil Engineering Research and Development, Farming and Agricultural R & D, and building several quality universities across Kalace, employing many civilians.
I'll put 50,000,000 Kon into improving and researching mining techniques and steel processing, as well as the work efforts in these regards- opening up several new mines across the country.

I eject from this. I call complete bullshit on you, Krayzee.

I didn't do anything bad. I increased my army size from 1% to 2.33% of my population, a fair wartime tactic when the two sides are rather even. Hell, it's less then double what the US uses in relative peacetime, and far, far less then the scales used in WWII. Then I invaded Echo. He did nothing to save himself. What idiot needs a super military to defeat someone who does nothing except whine that I'm not allowed to attack them? Yes, my double army can completely obliterate him under such conditions, any idiot can see that. However, you suddenly jumped in with insurrection, and you can't even FIND a precedent when the successful attacker collapsed in on himself, much less come up with a reason for MY probable insurrection. There was no joblessness, unless I started out starving there was enough grain to feed my army, my civilians and even a get a surplus. There's no 'super military power' there. I dropped my plans for instant airships and extended it instead to long-term plans, attacking Echo with base forces. You came up with bullshit excuses for why I'm losing, ranging from 'month-long march' to 'Doodle's ships are getting faster and faster en route', which show not only a complete disregard to the GEOGRAPHY of Europe (I say Europe because you didn't, my friend, come up with a distance scale on the damn map, so we use that of Europe!), but the basic, toddler-understandable principles of Doodle's ships not benefiting from the damn upgrades because they were not researched on the fleet, but rather in his nation.

Your examples of aftermaths of my actions are such bullshit that you couldn't even back them up properly. Your only argument to my counterarguments was 'AND LASTLY, THE EVENT IS NOT REAL', followed by ' I'm not going to argue, but you should learn.' and 'Month 3 can be the uprising in your invasion', which is to say you can't back up what will happen, but it will happen unless I back off, which you reiterated here: 'Only that Centreri asked me to remove the Action Points, made me make an example aftermath of his actions, and is really complaining.' Your best arguments BEFORE that to my counterarguments to your apocalyptic prediction were 'Daily life. Which clearly empties that out. Your need additional food to supply.' (which is stupid, because, again, I start with the assumption that you gave everyone an economy that was able to provide bread for its citizens...), 'You control a fictional nation under your own written information.', which is completely irrelevant, and my favorite one, 'Not BS, the whole point of this game is to be wise.', which is completely... what's the word... you get the point. You're affecting to being the peaceloving, wise, argument-hating moderator, simply because you have no effective arguments to back up any of your apocalyptic predictions.

That's playing god, not being a damn moderator.

As for action points, as I said, it makes this a mindless game that allows you to invest minimal amount into citizen happiness and the rest into army. The problem with Krayzee's brilliant implementation for the more realistic system is that he created absolute 0 guidelines for how much a single monie can accomplish, and better yet, his complete inadequacy in economics (the basic grasp of which can be gotten from Wikipedia) led to an unknown gross domestic product for each country and in turn an unknown government income, no taxation/benefits/happiness system, etc. Yes, it's more complicated to keep that in check, but it's far, far more customizable and interesting. Additionally, Krayzee completely neglected to specify what we start with other then our civilians, our 'military units' (which I just guessed are soldiers), and our monies. And, yippee, additionally, from a 3/5 ratio in action points and thus action we went to a 1/6 ratio in population (which, together with natural resources, education, infrastructure and economic system can easily be used to DEFINE economic power (and, hey, look at how those others all start out the same...)) and a 1/20 funds ratio. This huge imbalance, together with the pathetically slow pace of time, made the only way for a smaller nation to begin to even be able to even ANNOY a primary nation to be through annexation of your neighbors.

Population, really, in itself makes no sense, since population density throughout Europe stayed pretty constant throughout history so land area ratio of two countries should be rather close to the population ratio...

In conclusion, you are a completely inadequate host for a geopolitical non-MAD war game. You are biased, prissy, you do what you want to protect who you want, and the sad thing is, you can't even think of some decent defenses.

Kaias, before I'm gone, I would just like to inform you that that attack would be completely crushed, since I invaded Echo with 100,000 units and left 75,000 special-trained soldiers to defend, so your... 60,000 soldiers are really an annoyance at best, especially since you're the only one attacking even now. I think you've forgotten my draft already. I can destroy your army, leaving enough troops to destroy your defenders as well (splitting the army... tsk tsk) and invading your country forthright, albeit with a pathetically small army. And you probably wouldn't even have thought of drafts, because so far no one else here has!

You people just don't read...

As my last act as Czar Vladislav of Kievan Rus, I reunify with Russia to the North, dismantle my infrastructure, take all I can with me, and use my small Caspian Sea navy to bring my troops and civilians to Russian and thus unassailable land. You can attack my regular Kievan Rus land, but there's nothing there now. Enjoy.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Dec 15 2008, 10:54 pm by Centreri.

This game is unplayable. It needs more guidelines and development before it will be at all workable. There need to be parameters on what someone can and can't do, how much a monies is worth, and the level of depth required in any investment. The best you can do right now is make a directional conjecture and hope Krayzee approves. I'm withdrawing from the game. Maybe next round, if it surmounts it's shortcomings.

It might be fun to actually tie SC into the game. AKA you build a map for each military encounter and give each players units based on their Military set up. Instead of countries we could have planets set in the SC universe.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Dec 15 2008, 11:04 pm by Kaias.

I couldn't agree more .
Hmm. I just noticed, I didn't use a single smilie. Apparently, I use no smilies when pissed. Good to know.

I agree, this is really fucked up. Someone should lockify it.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Dec 15 2008, 11:20 pm by TassadarZeratul. Reason: Oh btw, sorry for the spam Moose.

You guys are all acting dumb. It's ironic that some shit like that would even come from you TZ. Just because Centreri can't have his ways, doesn't mean game is fucked up.