Just one question: Why does almost everyone vote TassadarZeratul as best newb? makes no sense.
Anyway, best map, shouldn't it be a comeplete version and not only a beta?

i forgot to put N/A.
And i generally think that lethal is the most deserving person I know of an award for something like best map. His efforts into his maps and pushing starcraft to limits is an oustanding example of mapping and hard work.

Why would you give Lethal most helpful mapper? He has only posted fourteen times in UMS Assistance.

You don't have to post in the UMS Assistance Forum to be a helpful mapper. You of all people should know this; how many times had Lethal taken the time to solve your dumb problems or teach you a concept?

You think you could've made your 4-Pixel grid if Lethal hadn't taught you everything?

No u! Its complete in the sense of the system. Hes just adding more things to it

Most helpful mapper: Lethal_Illusion
Best mapper: Lethal_Illusion
Best map: Elementa
Most helpful modder: N/A
Best modder: N/A
Best mod: N/A
Best terrainer: MNeox
Best staff: Isolated_Purity
Best member overall: Doodan
Worst spammer: RISKED911
Best fight: I haven't seen any of the fights, if someone could post a link plz?
Artist of the year: Syphon
Discussion member: MilleniumArmy
Tech member: O)Matt_Burch
Best newb: TassadarZeratul
Best fad creator: Corbo

Change worst spammer from me to Mr. Ming (Lord of Herpetic Penises)

Yes, but this is SEN awards not Battlenet awards.
Edit: I'm glad that lethal helped me, however i did learn many things on my own. Lethal actually got me back into mapping when i wanted to learn about FRAGS. I'm just saying that everything that lethal helps me with is on Battlenet which is not what these awards are for.

I figured out elementa without lethal's help and made my 4-Pixel grid without his help, besides when he was testing it with me.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Dec 27 2008, 5:13 pm by Morphling.

How is that not what these awards are for? All it means by 'SEN awards' is that the person is a member of SEN. Whether he helps you out by posting in the forum or on battlenet is irrelevant.

Read the fine print.

LOL, he taught you how locations grids and scanning worked before you even saw that map. I know, I was there. I didn't say he helped you build it; I said you couldn't've done it without him teaching you everything he did. You couldn't even figure out location shifting.

If you want to get into semantics, it can be read to be syntactically inclusive of it.

While your interpretation is valid, I think we must defer to Corbo and ask what his original intention was in making that statement.

We can sit around and argue author's intention all day, but unless you're Corbo you won't ever know. So now that the two differing interpretations have been presented let's just wait for Corbo to tell us what he originally meant.

Personally, I think it is more likely that Corbo intended for it to be just about the mapping forum, not because he consciously excluded b.net but because he never thought about it. However, I think that once he sees the issue he may choose to include b.net help into the category because it seems reasonable.

Regardless, I think the case for Lethal as most helpful is weak even if he taught Morphling everything he knows. Members like Falkoner and Nuderaider have provided far more help overall.

I guaranty almost everyone in SEN couldn't figure out location shifting. I'm not saying he didn't teach me things, but certainly not everything. I figured out many things before I even met you. I asked lethal about FRAGS because of the equation he used. I figured out the scanning and location grids on my own.Again, lethal did teach me many things, but not all and if I remember correctly, it was only math equations and that minimap thing. I agree with you Mayor, Falkoner and NudeRaider are far more helpful as they help far more people, where as lethal helps far more fewer people.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Dec 27 2008, 6:29 pm by Morphling.

It wasn't about whether he was the most helpful, it was whether he was even eligible- having only a few posts in UMS Assistance.

Christ, so many fights in this topic

I'd assume Corbo is intelligent enough to understand what the 'or' logical function stands for. In other words, Lethal is perfectly acceptable in Best UMS Helper category.

I disagree. What is the reasoning behind including the prepositional phrase "at the mapping forums" only with the "best" helper? I think it makes more sense that Corbo intended that preposition to go with both most helpful and best and just didn't want to repeat himself.

In other words he wrote what he did as a shortcut to mean:

I understand if you don't think the two statements are equivalent and that Corbo did intend for it to be just "helps the most" vs "helps the best at the mapping forums", however, my point is that why does best get to go with the mapping forums and not most?

Anyway, I think assigning "intelligence" with the proper logical usage of "or" is poisoning the well a bit. The usage of "or" that applies "at the mapping forums" with most and best would be a common thing for many people to do, including the most intelligent people. Corbo wasn't engaging in a formal argument when he was writing the topic so I'm assuming he was writing casually.

In other words, I don't think you can assume a certain interpretation of Corbo's statement simply because you assume an intelligent person would favor one usage over another.

Even if Corbo was intelligent enough to know how the logical function or works he could have just had a lapse when he wrote that sentence. You can't assume everyone is perfect all of the time.

And as I already stated an argument about an author's intention will get everyone nowhere. The only thing we can do is wait for Corbo to provide his input on this once and for all.


Also I question the usage of or in the first place. Using the phrases "helps the most" and "helps the best" can be considered redundant depending on how you define help. If there is only one degree of help then the person that would help the most is the one that helps the best. However, if you choose to categorize help into "good" help and "bad" help or how thorough someone is in helping, then I suppose you can make the quality over quantity argument. In that case helping the most would be different from helping the best.


Also, Kaias, we've been assuming that "helps the best" means the best helper. However, if you want to get into semantics, as you tried to do, "helps the best" could mean "helps the best people" or the best whatever. Anyway this just shows how a discussion over semantics is pointless and that we should just shut up until Corbo clarifies his statement.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Dec 27 2008, 7:14 pm by Mayor.

That would be an illogical interpretation, however, defining it how I did versus how Morph does are both very valid conclusions. Either way, the literal interpretation is irrelevant; only what Corbo intended matters, which, as you agreed earlier, "Not because he consciously excluded b.net but because he never thought about it. However, I think that once he sees the issue he may choose to include b.net help into the category because it seems reasonable.", he doesn't actually care if it's exclusive to the forums, he just didn't foresee this useless conflict.

And even all that doesn't matter, because whether even if it's actual composition is built through posting in the forums, anyone can still validly esteem him, or anyone else even the most minutely valid, as the "most helpful mapper".

And, in the spirit of that power, I vote RISKED911 as the most helpful mapper.

How would it be an illogical interpretation? There is nothing illogical about it.

Lethal is a member of SEN and he's helped countless members of SEN with maps. He is VERY helpful to people, sure he doesn't post much, but he's done quitea bit for the community on battle.net, regardless of that being battle.net not SEN, he helped SEN somehow.

Let's just ask Corbo, okay?

And btw: That was Zombie-HeaD-Shot.