If this is about your RUSH map (which was pretty cool, but I still beat it alone as defiler). Remember where you put that plot about the government conspiracy or w/e. While you are doing that, place something like --

(your text) Your mission: Aim (Centre on enemy target), Kill (somehow make def use dark swarm [have dt attack burrowed unit? then remove quickly] place dragoon there, and kill it), WIN! (Show def using rocket or some special that you may put in)

(..... = action occuring)

Basicly it will look like (TEXT) Your mission: Aim....., Kill....., WIN!.....
some other tips here....
tutorial option if they want it
bleh>

Force them to do a mini tutorial and after they have "passed" it have a small wave of emimies attack them to root out the noobs and have them killed . Or... Do text... which no one will read . Basicly theres no real way to ease them in unless you have some simple expenation.

If it's good, people will play it no matter what.

Well when Me and Havok made Line Tower Defense we thought about this and it seems the best way to this atleast,for us was to make a intro non choose able.Where it gives you a small in game breifing of how the game works and usally it gets the basics to the people.

You don't need much instruction to play a defense..

Admittedly, I didn't read pages 2+3 of this topic, so if this was suggested, forgive me.

A start option. Each player can choose pro or noob mode. You could possibly give noobs a slight advantage here in some way, but the primary function in this is to enable such things as text tutorials popping up to tell you what to do, tips as you play, etc.
Anyone who doesn't pick in ~10 seconds goes to noob mode ;o

If you have a complex map which many public noobs cannot grasp to understand, then I can only say one thing: sux.


Knowing how the game works conceptually and knowing how to actually play the game are two completely different things; briefings and most in-game instructions can only at most achieve the first one. You can be told numerous times by words that to do this you must do that, but you truly wont be able to know how to play until you are actually in the game. It's like Calculus; you can be told and given theorems, formulas, and example problems all at the beginning of each section or chapter, but you truly wont be able to do calculus until you actually work out and solve the problems.

So IMO there's nothing you can really do. Force feed these people all these instructions you want, but no matter what you do, it doesn't guarantee that they will understand how to play the game. However, the bigger problem is that even if you add in-game briefings, in-game live examples, etc, most people still are not going to pay attention. Most people on battle.net play to have fun, to enjoy themselves. I highly doubt many people on battle.net would enjoy having to strain themselves by trying to critically understand how to play complex maps.

As unfortunate as it may seem, the public battle.net are what set the criterion for your maps. Maps are about your audience, not about you. What's the point of making a complex map if nobody can understand it? Sure you can play it with a community such as this one, but as far as battle.net, it probably wont get very far. That is why I make my maps simple for the most part; I try to appease the general public by letting them have a good time and be able to understand how to play the game smoothly.


But if you are truly adament about getting your map spread around (meaning you can get more ppl to understand the game), then IMO the only effect way to do so is to simplify your map's gameplay. You cannot change people's learning abilities; you can however change your game's level of complexity. This may not lower the complexity of the map itself (triggerwise and etc); infact if you do it right, it might even make the map structure more complex yet making it look like a simple gameplay to the naked eye. I think this would give any map makers a very nice challenge instead of just simply making a complex map; knowing how to make something huge AND knowing how to contain/restrain it.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Sep 18 2007, 4:58 pm by MillenniumArmy.

Well, it's not like Calculus in complexity. If they can learn Starcraft, they can probably learn this.


I'm using two things to counter the overall complexity: A strong initial hook, and context.

By hook, I mean a main element that people can quickly get familiar with and begin using almost right away. Context, which is the main thing, will allow the other elements to be explored by being part of something else going on.


My goal is only to prevent the player from being lost on any given part. I'll let them get good at putting it all together on their own.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Sep 18 2007, 7:26 pm by Tuxedo-Templar.

We aren't going for every player, we are just want the majority of players to be able to play the game and at least have a general picture of how to play.

Well, I can't really give them any kind of advantages with newb mode since that would be exploitable. I could give them hand-holding tutorials for everything, but if I'm gonna do that I may as well build it in as a function for everyone with toggling.

I could use some kind of newb-finder method to decide whether it starts on or not for each player, though.

Here are some "newb-finder" methods I have tried in the past. They are all very effective in eliminating stupid non-reading players from the game so that you don't have to deal with them. I don't need to tell you that in practice, such methods eliminate pretty much everyone.

1) A briefing test. Simply put, what this did was it tested whether or not you had read the briefing OR were familiar with the contents. It did this rather simply: at the beginning of the game, it gave players a simple direction. If they followed it, they were instantly given a defeat, because on page 8 or so of the briefing, there was a line saying not to follow that direction. Unfortunately, no players were found to exist who could pass the test. In order to host the map, I have to tell people to just skip the briefing and not follow the initial directions. Then I have to explain to them how to play, and despite the relative simplicity of the concept, they still almost universally fail to understand it.

2) An unforgiving map. Actually, this describes most of what I make nowadays...I don't really like the RTS genre of game, so I tend to make fast action maps that demand a high rate of activity from the player. If players don't figure the map out and get going, they'll get a defeat because the map's features are not sympathetic to just sitting in one place. Depending on how harsh the system is, the players will either be forced to learn by the "WTF HAPPENED?" factor (of course, by then they'll be too far behind to catch up, and having been horrifically defeated, they won't return), or they'll simply be eliminated. The problem with this is that the harsher the punishment is, the more fun the game is, because of the additional tension: having to keep on top of things or your Starcraft crashes will generate more adrenaline (from any decently warm-blooded player) than, say, losing 15 points if you're hideously neglectful. The downside to a harsher punishment is that new players will end up enduring it, probably without knowing why.

3) An anti-reading newbie trick. This one is fairly simple: have a small box with a civ in it, and choices on two sides, left and right. Label one of them "go" and the other one "hear the directions". The one labeled "go" centers the player's view on a crashing unit (I heart my bunker crash system...people just don't see it coming). The one labeled "hear the directions" does exactly what it says: it tells the player how to play the game. A completely unlabeled third location elsewhere in the civ box, the position of which is described in the directions, actually makes the game go.

What of the people who have played the map before? There is no reason to watch an intro or explanation when you have already done so in a previous play through of the map. And what of types of learners out there. Some people can learn simply by Reading text. Some people need to be shown a Visual to be able to learn. And then there are some who can't learn by either of these and need to learn by Action.

Devious. I'd actually like something like that if that could fit into my goal here. Problem is, my goal isn't to drive away players necessarily. If they're a newb, they're gonna get their arse kicked anyway. But at least maybe they can have a chance and at least they can use that chance to learn the map. And because this is a team-based game with a lot of options, there's always simple things even newbs can do to help.

If pros want to host the map with only other pros, it's up to them to arrange it themselves. Bnet has private games and such for a reason.


I wouldn't be against considering a "pros only" mode that players can toggle in the game at the start by doing some secret trick or something, though.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Sep 19 2007, 8:42 pm by Tuxedo-Templar.

Edit: Durr. Double post. Don't know how that happend.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Sep 19 2007, 8:31 pm by Tuxedo-Templar.

place a nuke silo for each player, when they make a nuke, kill the silo and create a ling that lets them select whatever it is you want restricted access to. This has worked in the past on maps i added a handicap to.

Why did you add the nuke silo and nuke into it??

It was on a map where you could handicap yourself by making the units you build start with partial hp. I added the lock to keep noobs from handicapping themselves and making the game too easy for the other team.

This sounds to be the best you can do.

I also had faced your problem sometimes. I "solved" it by displaying a text on the screen for a long time at the beginning which explains how to activate the help. Then I divided the "helpcenter" into logical groups, like "first steps" and "basic strategy" etc. This worked for about 40% of the players. You simply had to read and to execute one simple command. And I almost went mad, because still too many players didnt get it and just left without a comment or question...

You can't do anything to change that... but I think what you gonna do is the best way to achieve the highest percentage of ppl understanding it. I especially like the creep colony switch.

But I would add a helpcenter where you can review all aspects. In the heat of the game you may still overlook the ingame tips.

I'd say that the idea of integrating the instructions along with the storyline is the best one. If they care about the storyline, they'd most likely care about how to play the game as well. Or you could do some nice eye candy introduction that appeals to the players' visual interest, and integrate the instructions there. I mean, it doesn't have to relate to the plot at all. It just needs to keep the players interested in a movie map sort of way.

Fact #1: People on b.net are impatient, all they want to do is play the thing.
Fact #2: Briefings are totally useless, they completely ignore them.
Fact #3: They either catch on or give up and leave.

So, in that sense, don't make game play that complex. At the start that is.