Hmm. A designated tutorial for people who are actually interested in taking time to learn it? Interesting idea. Here I was trying to solve the other end of the problem with people who don't want to take time to learn anything. Perhaps I should consider something extra for those who do want to try to learn.

It'll have to come after getting the tutorial system worked out for those who don't first, though. As much as I hate them, they're the ones who take priority. But I'll definitely consider it.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Sep 14 2007, 10:06 pm by Tuxedo-Templar.

Keep in mind that you only need some of the players to figure it out, because those players will then (usually) explain/yell what to do to the rest. I don't know about optional tutorials, since the vast majority of people is not going to watch a tutorial when they could be playing. If you play WC3 maps, a lot of them have useful info in the quests menu, but no one ever READS it. However, some players (like me) do use tutorials and the quests menu. I think your best bet is a very short briefing, tips in-game, and an adjustment time during the start of the game.

Your briefing should not scroll AT ALL. Get the important points across, and that's ALL. The briefing should tell the players what the general tone of the game will be, not how to play it. It is impossible to understand how to play a map without actually looking at it while you read the briefing. For example, my AOS map only says "Use your hero to turn the tide of war!" "Press Start" in the main text area. That lets people know exactly whats expected of them. More specialized information is placed in the mission objectives (which can be read in-game).

Tips should only come up just before they will be needed, or when the player is doing something wrong. Also, tips should either display once for a long time, or disappear very quickly. Does a person not have enough minerals? Say "You need at least X minerals to buy Y", and never tell them again. They will realize the problem in the future. Once again, you need to be as short and concise as possible. If your tip is longer than a line, most people won't get the important part of the message. Blizzard could get away with this because they actually had the characters talking; you can't do that.

Your adjustment time just needs to be a part where the players actions matter very little, but they still need to do things. Don't put too many tips here, as the other players will be yelling out what to do anyways.

I speak from experience here. If you try "Power Towers" on WC3, you will see this applied, and it makes a huge difference. People used to be completely confused by the map mechanics, but now half will usually "get" it before the first round starts. That half will then educate the other half on what to do.

Anyone ever thought of having a map that in a sense, reads it out to the players? I know the map size would be large, but if the rules were short, or very compressed, it might just work. And if you don't like your voice, you could always get microsoft sam to help out.

1) The map would be huge.
2) Not everyone plays with sound on.

The public doesn't like complex maps, it'll never happen. The public likes short maps that they can play over and over again with a somewhat simple design. Kind of sucks

Really, if you're going for a complex design, make the tutorial like the one in Half-Life 2. You actually do things that aren't blantantly tutorial-like (i.e. a bootcamp in an army map).

P.S.: I don't know if that's already been said because I was too lazy to read through the entire topic.

Alright, here's my plan:

• I'll start with some snazzy (and absolutely mandatory) 5-10 second splash screen to remind the player how cool I am.
  
• Then I'll sex them up with some ohshitweregonnadieitsover9000thisissparda cutscene to give the player some basic orientation to what is going on.
  
• I've arranged a window large enough at the start of gameplay to outline all the basic gameplay elements to the player. I'll have a narrator (your "commander") provide that basic information and starter instructions to get the player rolling (all in the background; unskippable).
  
• Each player will have a creep colony in a special area in the map. They're informed after the beginning sequences that they can morph this to a sunken colony for an overview of all the main map functions, or a spore colony to disable all in-game help.
  
• With help not disabled, players will be given instructions on each element of gameplay as they encounter them.
  
• During gameplay, the "commander" will give general tips based on the state of gameplay for each player to prompt them to take certain actions that might be appropriate (like "expand now", "add some defenses", "scout around", "get some of this or that", etc.).
  
• Profit!
  

Any questions?

Sounds great Tuxlar! I can't wait to play it.

Sounds good.... Didn't read most of the posts... read first page and last page. I know the feeling... that should work though. What I used/ am using on a map of mine, the beggining is a level in itself, but at the same time a tutorial to teach people how the game works, but their not reading much, they get to test stuff out, and give them a few abilities at a time to try out, so that they get through a level, and they've learned the controls.

Some of my friends who never read brieifings and hate doing tuts etc. Played the map, and don't even realize it's a tut, its the same as any other level.

Good luck. Just adding my 2 cent minerals.

Give players a choice between a short tutorial in the beginning or ingame tips.
Use the same strings for both.

Idk what all has been said but i kinda got the jist of things... You said way back when that you could make a sick trick intro/cut scene that doubled as a tutorial so that players would be interested and they would also get how to play right? Well then you said it would get old having to remake and replay the same part of the tutorial over and over again... Solution! Make the tutorial/cool-cutscene and then at the end tell the player the secret how to skip it Like within the first five seconds have them burrow a unit in a specific corner of a room or whatever you want. This is the same kind of system as your Rush map except you don't need quite as complex of triggers and they won't need to write codes down. So this way after the five seconds you get the persons attention with the cutscene and then you show them how to play in the tutorial. Or are there problems with this?...

Simple concept complex balance, this is the secret to maps that stay popular.

But I think random tips at 1-2 minute intervals, with a switch to turn them off would be useful.

Concept will be about as simple to normal players as Starcraft usually is to first timers. Perhaps simpler.

I'm trying to strengthen the initial hook of it, though. I may end up adding something making it very similar to a madness map to do that, though.

This won't be a madness map, though. In fact, I don't know if there really is a classification for something like this.

Ok i only read first post so meh ut i have an idea.

Make an ingame tutorial that someone can refer to at any time. A perfect example wuould be the Metal Marines map

Addition:
Another would be the starport game, its got a "starpedia". The starpedia is basically an encyclopedia you can visit at any given time

DisplayMessage("Your subtitles are off. If you are new to this game, go to
Options-Video-Subtitles to turn it on to view newbie tips,", 4);
DisplayMessage("









Your subtitles are on. In-game newbie tips will be displayed", 0);

PCFredZ, the only problem I see with that is that most people, either A. Think they don't need the help or B. They are too lazy to turn it on.

Or C. Too dumb to know how to even if you explain it to them.

You really have to make this shit understandable for 5 year olds.

Would dumb people even be good at the map even if they knew how to play it? Why teach the idiots how to play so that they'll be playing with good people and stinking up the games?

Because if no one hosts the map in the first place then it won't get around to the non-dumb people. And occasionally, people can learn not to be dumb if they try.

But really, it never hurts to explain things anyway as long as the information itself doesn't become overwhelming.

I suggest having slow prereleases of it adding features along the way that way players tend to learn quickly, although old map versions may become a problem.