Staredit Network > Forums > SC1 Map Showcase > Topic: [Campaign] Vanguard of Aiur
[Campaign] Vanguard of Aiur
Aug 30 2021, 7:00 pm
By: Omen  

Oct 10 2021, 11:16 am Omen Post #21



Quote from Andrea Rosa
Mission 6

I have no major complaints about this mission. Map size, layout, resources and gameplay, it all felt ok. I was able to win well before the intended time limit of 45 minutes, but this doesn't mean that you need to reduce it. I used a group of 12 Dragoons and two groups of 12 Zealots with Leg Enhancements (my Forge upgrades were 2-1-2), plus an handful of Dark Archons for mind-controlling the enemy Reavers. Perhaps you should set the diplomatic stance toward Red as enemy, so that the three High Templar can be automatically attacked (the current alliance status is neutral, hence the player needs to individually attack them with the 'A' command, not the best solution in my opinion). You also need to revise the starting sequence, because the Yellow Zealots don't seem to be able to completely destroy Fenix's outpost if they are left undisturbed (for some reason they stop after a while and don't attack the Gateway), and even in the case the outpost is destroyed, nothing happens (it is supposed to be a defeat condition according to the mission objectives). Anyway, good job on this one.



Mission 7

In terms of resources vs difficulty, this map is very well-balanced, and the same goes for the four AIs: the two Zerg Broods carry out small but frequent attacks, while the two Protoss Tribes are a more serious threat. I don't understand the reasoning behind the Terran tech tree: we can't build any structure, yet there are a lot of units and technologies available that rely on the disabled buildings; then we have an Engineering Bay but not an Armory, even though we can build some vehicles; finally, the limit of 26 supply for the Terrans is a joke, it's simply impossible to do anything meaningful with them, except from building a bunch of Siege Tanks which can't even be upgraded. I guess you were trying to replicate the gameplay of the last mission of Dark Vengeance, but in that map the supply limit is higher, the player has all the buildings needed to upgrade his units, and the technologies are enabled or disabled in a proper way. This aspect of your map needs to be re-examined.



Another nice campaign, my friend. There are some things which need to be fixed, but all in all good job!


I fear that in Mission 7 I forgot to re-enable the units and researches I disabled in the Terran tech tree, because this map was originally supposed to be only Protoss-based, with an SCV only for repairing the Hyperion (that's why all Terran buildings appear as unavailable). My real intention was to give the player the full Terran technology (being the last mission), apart from the Brood War Units (which belong only to the UED, at the time this campaign is set in the game storyline).

About Mission 6, maybe I could use a 'Send all units on strategic suicide mission' to make sure Player 8's starting Zealots continue their attack. I also need to review the defeat conditions to make sure the player loses if he has no buildings left.

Thank you so much for your advice and for testing my campaign. I'm looking forward to some more "collaborations" for my future projects!

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Oct 10 2021, 12:39 pm by Omen.



None.

Oct 10 2021, 8:17 pm Andrea Rosa Post #22

Just a glitch in the Matrix

Sounds good to me. Yes, a full tech tree is more appropriate for a final mission. As for Mission 6, I've noticed that 'Send all units on RANDOM suicide mission' generally works better than 'STRATEGIC'. Your map already uses it, appropriately combined with 'Preserve trigger', so I don't think that's the problem. I was curious, so I tried changing it to 'STRATEGIC', but the final result wasn't much better: the Zealots wiped out most of the base but they still did not attack the Gateway (of course during these tests I bring Fenix out of danger). I really don't know what causes them to become confused, at some point they simply start to walk back and forth aimlessly. You can try with a patrol command, giving the three groups of Zealots three different target locations, carefully positioning those locations in a way that they will surely encompass all of the buildings. You will need to test it thoroughly, but I think that in this way it will work.

I was pleased to try both Unlikely Allies and Vanguard of Aiur, I hope I've been helpful and I look forward to your next campaign - I guess that sooner or later we'll get a Zerg-themed one, right?



Level Design Workshop

''Go to hell'' is basic. ''I hope your favorite StarCraft character gets voiced by Pr0nogo'' is smart. It's possible. It's terrifying.

Oct 11 2021, 10:40 am Omen Post #23



Quote from Andrea Rosa
Sounds good to me. Yes, a full tech tree is more appropriate for a final mission. As for Mission 6, I've noticed that 'Send all units on RANDOM suicide mission' generally works better than 'STRATEGIC'. Your map already uses it, appropriately combined with 'Preserve trigger', so I don't think that's the problem. I was curious, so I tried changing it to 'STRATEGIC', but the final result wasn't much better: the Zealots wiped out most of the base but they still did not attack the Gateway (of course during these tests I bring Fenix out of danger). I really don't know what causes them to become confused, at some point they simply start to walk back and forth aimlessly. You can try with a patrol command, giving the three groups of Zealots three different target locations, carefully positioning those locations in a way that they will surely encompass all of the buildings. You will need to test it thoroughly, but I think that in this way it will work.

I was pleased to try both Unlikely Allies and Vanguard of Aiur, I hope I've been helpful and I look forward to your next campaign - I guess that sooner or later we'll get a Zerg-themed one, right?

Ok, I fixed the issue with the Zealots by sending them to patrol a target location on Player 2's Nexus: I tested the map and now they attack every building they meet in their way.

I'm surely going to propose a Zerg campaign in the future (I'm already working on the first missions); it will cover more or less the same storyline of the Terran (UED) campaign, in order to complete the "side stories" of the Brood War official campaign.



None.

Oct 23 2021, 7:50 pm Zincoshine Post #24



I have played the first two missions. I am really lucky that in the case of both, there is only a single major issue in each mission and hence I need to type very little.

In mission 1, everything is really great except for the plot map relation. What I mean is that is completely absurd that we are sacrificing the lives of around 50 khalai by the end of the mission just to save about 10 khalai in 3 locations. It gets even more absurd when this rescue includes the rescue of two reavers.... why would you need to rescue robots!? It gets EVEN MORE absurd when you notice the zerg occasionally strolling past the khalai (before they are rescued). Again, this was a really enjoyable mission and it is sure to give a good effect on the campaign's score for the other columns on my listing but my god, as far as plot map relation goes, this mission has one of the worst relations I've ever seen.

In mission 2 there are some serious gameplay issues that caused me to abort the mission. First, It is almost impossible to defend at the start before the dark templar arrive. This can be fixed by adding one zealot and one pylon close to the ramp at the top left of the base. It's a very small but important change that will help a lot in improving the early game. The other problem is that the player is only warned of flying units coming less than 10 seconds before a group of mutalisks charge at the warp gate and trigger a defeat. To fix this, the warning (which also spawns the corsairs) should come 2 minutes earlier, so that the player knows that flying zerg units are coming and that they need to prepare the base for defending against them.

Aside from this, both missions were great. In the case of the first mission, there is sadly nothing that can be done to improve it. However, in the case of the second mission, it would be nice if you could fix it, it should be fairly easy to fix.

Edit:

I have played the third mission now, Andrea Rosa's influence is pretty clear here. Overall a very difficult but enjoyable macro mission. Oh, there is one small issue, it doesn't really make sense that the terrans are able to produce battlecruisers given their dire situation. In fact, the same could be said about the protoss carriers and arbiters but removing the protoss carriers and arbiters as well would make this mission impossible to win.

Post has been edited 3 time(s), last time on Oct 25 2021, 12:57 pm by Zincoshine.



None.

Oct 28 2021, 9:15 am Omen Post #25



Quote from Zincoshine
I have played the first two missions. I am really lucky that in the case of both, there is only a single major issue in each mission and hence I need to type very little.

In mission 1, everything is really great except for the plot map relation. What I mean is that is completely absurd that we are sacrificing the lives of around 50 khalai by the end of the mission just to save about 10 khalai in 3 locations. It gets even more absurd when this rescue includes the rescue of two reavers.... why would you need to rescue robots!? It gets EVEN MORE absurd when you notice the zerg occasionally strolling past the khalai (before they are rescued). Again, this was a really enjoyable mission and it is sure to give a good effect on the campaign's score for the other columns on my listing but my god, as far as plot map relation goes, this mission has one of the worst relations I've ever seen.

In mission 2 there are some serious gameplay issues that caused me to abort the mission. First, It is almost impossible to defend at the start before the dark templar arrive. This can be fixed by adding one zealot and one pylon close to the ramp at the top left of the base. It's a very small but important change that will help a lot in improving the early game. The other problem is that the player is only warned of flying units coming less than 10 seconds before a group of mutalisks charge at the warp gate and trigger a defeat. To fix this, the warning (which also spawns the corsairs) should come 2 minutes earlier, so that the player knows that flying zerg units are coming and that they need to prepare the base for defending against them.

Aside from this, both missions were great. In the case of the first mission, there is sadly nothing that can be done to improve it. However, in the case of the second mission, it would be nice if you could fix it, it should be fairly easy to fix.

Edit:

I have played the third mission now, Andrea Rosa's influence is pretty clear here. Overall a very difficult but enjoyable macro mission. Oh, there is one small issue, it doesn't really make sense that the terrans are able to produce battlecruisers given their dire situation. In fact, the same could be said about the protoss carriers and arbiters but removing the protoss carriers and arbiters as well would make this mission impossible to win.

Hi Zincoshine,
thank you for your advice. I'm surely going to review Missions 2 and 3 with the small fixes you suggest; in truth, I just forgot to modify the Terran tech tree for Player 8 (even Medics and Valkyries were available, which at that point of the story are owned only by the UED!).
About Mission 1, I know it seems a bit nonsense sacrificing your warriors to save, in fact, other warriors that could help you on the battlefield. I'd have appreciated if Blizzard included a sort of 'Protoss Civilian' among the available units, but unfortunately they didn't...

By the way, I'm waiting for some other feedback about the remaining missions before I publish the updated version of this campaign.



None.

Oct 28 2021, 12:11 pm Zincoshine Post #26



Unfortunately, it could be many weeks before feedback on the other missions come. The steam sale season started a few days earlier than expected and I didn't finish playing your campaign before it started. I'm playing this right now https://store.steampowered.com/app/814680/Unbound_Worlds_Apart/

Quote
About Mission 1, I know it seems a bit nonsense sacrificing your warriors to save, in fact, other warriors that could help you on the battlefield. I'd have appreciated if Blizzard included a sort of 'Protoss Civilian' among the available units, but unfortunately they didn't...
yeah I know what you were really trying to do here, it's very unfortunate that the limitations of Broodwar make this so hard to realise. I wonder if a mod changing the terran civilians into protoss civilians exists. I'll ask on discord later.

Edit: or actually, maybe change protoss flag beacons into protoss civilians, that way they can pass through other units.



None.

Feb 14 2022, 8:47 pm Zincoshine Post #27



I have played mission 4. The biggest problem with this mission is that the defeat trigger and the victory trigger have no delay. For the defeat trigger, this means everytime raynor gets blown up by an infested terran, I have to go through the defeat screen and back to the main menu and load the game each time. You should add a delay of 3 seconds following the "raynor has been killed!" message so that players have a chance to reload. As you will be dying A LOT in this mission due to the infested terrans, this is pretty important. As for the victory trigger, since it is instantaneous I don't get to read the final dialogue in the mission. Aside from that, this was actually a rather fun and challenging mission.

Edit: I have now tried to play mission 5. I have to say, I had low expectations when I realized it was similar to my least favorite mission in the original campaign, the zerg mission where you have to kill all dark templar trying to escape. I was wondering how you would design it when it involves dropships instead which can fly. I expected it to be bad and was not surprised when it did in fact turn out to be bad. Unplayable to be exact. Honestly, I wish I could give some advice on how to make this work but the best idea I can come up with would be to have the enemy try and send a convoy of ground units instead but that would still not be enjoyable to deal with and would be illogical since a base like this must have air units. Oh well....

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Feb 14 2022, 10:22 pm by Zincoshine.



None.

Feb 15 2022, 7:08 pm Zincoshine Post #28



I've completed the campaign...

Mission 6 had no problems other than some small grammar mistakes in the start of the mission. Lots of fun was had here.

Mission 7 I decided to skip this because the moment the mission starts, the yellow protoss will immediately rush me. I found this to be too much to handle right at the very start as I only have a relatively small defense force while they have multiple routes of entry that I'm somehow supposed to defend with these starting units... not to mention the zerg that will begin to attack my nearly defenseless base from below once my battered forces have subdued the threat from the north. I think you need to choose between either adding some small defenses along the entry routes to the north so that the player isn't overwhelmed at the start, or simply removing the rush.



None.

Jul 25 2022, 7:21 pm Omen Post #29



Quote from Zincoshine
I've completed the campaign...

Mission 6 had no problems other than some small grammar mistakes in the start of the mission. Lots of fun was had here.

Mission 7 I decided to skip this because the moment the mission starts, the yellow protoss will immediately rush me. I found this to be too much to handle right at the very start as I only have a relatively small defense force while they have multiple routes of entry that I'm somehow supposed to defend with these starting units... not to mention the zerg that will begin to attack my nearly defenseless base from below once my battered forces have subdued the threat from the north. I think you need to choose between either adding some small defenses along the entry routes to the north so that the player isn't overwhelmed at the start, or simply removing the rush.

I have returned!

Thank you for your feedback.

What do you mean when you say that Mission 5 is "unplayable"? Is there something wrong with the map triggers?

About Mission 7, for the yellow Protoss I used an original campaign AI script (Zerg 9 - Yellow Protoss) along with "value this area higher" scripts on several locations all around the player's base; that's why the AI is so aggressive. I think that delaying by some minutes the "value this area higher" scripts should be enough to ensure that the player doesn't get overwhelmed at the beginning.



None.

Jul 28 2022, 7:16 pm Zincoshine Post #30



I mean it's unplayable because there's just no realistic way to stop these dropships. They're going to reach the defeat trigger.



None.

Jul 29 2022, 12:17 pm Andrea Rosa Post #31

Just a glitch in the Matrix

I remember that mission. It had some issues (see my previous posts) but I was able to beat it, albeit after several attempts and some luck. I played the original release, I don't know if the map has been changed in the meantime.



Level Design Workshop

''Go to hell'' is basic. ''I hope your favorite StarCraft character gets voiced by Pr0nogo'' is smart. It's possible. It's terrifying.

Aug 9 2022, 2:26 pm Omen Post #32



Quote from Zincoshine
I mean it's unplayable because there's just no realistic way to stop these dropships. They're going to reach the defeat trigger.

The best I can do is to add beacons in the map corners and minimap pings to hint the player which corner of the map the Dropship is going to. Then it's up to the player to send its forces in the right place...

I edited the first post of this topic with the latest version of the maps; if you want you can try and see if Mission 5 is now more playable.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Aug 9 2022, 8:29 pm by Omen.



None.

Aug 14 2022, 6:04 am Zincoshine Post #33



I think that might help actually.



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