kills to cash
Jan 1 2008, 6:20 pm
By: fm47  

Jan 1 2008, 6:20 pm fm47 Post #1



Ok, so I've never got a perfect grasp on the exact mechanics of the Kills to Cash Perfect function, but I got it to work (I think).

So here is what I understand:
Computer gets 1 kill of a unit first so it would lead in most kills for the unit.
Then 2 sets of triggers, one to create a unit to be killed by a player when the player has a death count of an universal unused unit, the other to give the player leading in most kills reward(s) and to give all participating players (including the computer score keeper) a death count, then negating one from the one receiving the reward.

Is that correct?

Here's my main question: For a diversity of units to kill, do I make a pair of those the last 2 triggers for each unit "killable", or did I totally misunderstand the tutorial somewhere?

The problem with the former is that the first set of triggers, the one that creates a unit to be killed should a player have a death count, only creates one particular unit to be killed when the player does get a death count... what should I do?



None.

Jan 1 2008, 7:07 pm NudeRaider Post #2

We can't explain the universe, just describe it; and we don't know whether our theories are true, we just know they're not wrong. >Harald Lesch

First of all, the system doesn't work with death counts. It uses real kills that happen on the map.
The death counter is used to trigger the kill update (trigger 2) for the right players (all but current player) after trigger 1 has fired. (see below)

There's a scorekeeper which is supposed to ALWAYS have most kills of ALL units that you want to give money for.

- When a player kills one of these units he ALSO has status of most kills and thus can get the reward. (trigger 1)
- And ALL other players (including scorekeeper) get 1 of this unit to kill (trigger 2)

After trigger 2 has fired all players have killed the same amount of that type of unit and scorekeeper is again 1 kill ahead. From the viewpoint of the system you have the same situation like in the beginning when the scorekeeper made his first kill(s). The total kills are higher, but all players have the same amount, except the scorekeeper which has 1 more.

You will have to make those pairs of triggers for every unit that is supposed to be rewarded. If EVERY kill should give the SAME REWARD you can spare yourself a lot of triggers and check for [men] instead of for specific units.
But usually you would want to give more minerals for an ultralisk as for a marine, right? ;)




Jan 1 2008, 10:03 pm fm47 Post #3



I see. So would I need to "declare" what's kill-able and allow the computer to kill one of each of those units, right?

And, right now, my trigger that creates a unit to be killed is as such

CONDITIONS:
Current Player has suffered at least 1 deaths of Rhynadon (Badlands).

ACTIONS:
Preserve Triggers.
Center location labled 'kill_update' on 'Protoss Pylon' owned by current player at 'Anywhere'.
Create 1 Zergling at 'kill_update' for (enemy computer player). Apply Properties (burrow; 1%hp).
Modify death counts for current player: Subtract 1 for Rhynadon (Badlands).

The problem with that is that whenever I have a death count to create a unit to be killed, it's always a zergling. Do I just have to add in the condition: If Current player has Most Kills of Zerg Zergling?



None.

Jan 2 2008, 12:14 am NudeRaider Post #4

We can't explain the universe, just describe it; and we don't know whether our theories are true, we just know they're not wrong. >Harald Lesch

Quote from fm47
I see. So would I need to "declare" what's kill-able and allow the computer to kill one of each of those units, right?
right.

Quote from fm47
The problem with that is that whenever I have a death count to create a unit to be killed, it's always a zergling. Do I just have to add in the condition: If Current player has Most Kills of Zerg Zergling?
No, because the players that need an update DON'T have most kills of that unit which means that they couldn't use the condition.

As I said you will need a pair of triggers for every type of unit. Ofc you check for most kills of that same unit and give the other players that same unit to kill. To do that make a table like this:
Player has . . DC value . . . Reward
most kills of
-------------------------------------
Ling . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . 50 ore
Hydra . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . 100 ore
Rine . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . 75 ore




Jan 2 2008, 10:15 pm fm47 Post #5



oh, so every unit returns a different dc value, which in turn translates into a reward then (just making sure I'm absolutely clear on this)... could you show me how I would make one for a zergling and hydralisk? Conditions/Actions as the editor would look.

EDIT:

Quote
oh, so every unit returns a different dc value, which in turn translates into a reward then (just making sure I'm absolutely clear on this)...

Apparently that is wrong -_-

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jan 2 2008, 10:25 pm by fm47.



None.

Jan 3 2008, 12:33 am NudeRaider Post #6

We can't explain the universe, just describe it; and we don't know whether our theories are true, we just know they're not wrong. >Harald Lesch

Quote from fm47
oh, so every unit returns a different dc value, which in turn translates into a reward then (just making sure I'm absolutely clear on this)... could you show me how I would make one for a zergling and hydralisk? Conditions/Actions as the editor would look.
Units don't return DC values. As I told you above the system uses kills, not death counts.
The death counter that is set by the player with the most kills is only to trigger the update (also stated above). You could as well use a bunch of switches but death counters make your life easier as every player has its own count and you can set more values than 2 (0/1 = cleared/set).

Note that I differentiate between death counts and death counters.
Death counts is what the game counts when a unit dies.
Death counters are variables that are declared by modifying the death counts of units that don't exist ingame. You always have full control over these (because you take an unused unit) and thus values only change when you make corresponding actions.

Trigger Ling Detect:
Force 1
Conditions:

Current Player has most kills of ling
All Players have suffered at most 0 of 'Update DC'
All Players brings at most 0 [men] 'Update Location'
Actions:
Set Resources Add 50 Ore for Current Player
Set Deaths for All Players of 'Update DC' to 1
Set Deaths for Current Player of 'Update DC' to 0
Preserve Trigger

Trigger Rine Detect:
Force 1
Conditions:

Current Player has most kills of rine
All Players have suffered at most 0 of 'Update DC'
All Players brings at most 0 [men] 'Update Location'
Actions:
Set Resources Add 75 Ore for Current Player
Set Deaths for All Players of 'Update DC' to 3
Set Deaths for Current Player of 'Update DC' to 0
Preserve Trigger

Trigger Ling Update:
All Players
Conditions:

Current Player has suffered exactly 1 of 'Update DC'
Actions:
Center 'Cannon' on Photon Cannon owned by Current Player at 'Update Location'
Create 1 ling at 'Cannon' for <enemy player>
Set Deaths for Current Player of 'Update DC' to 0
Preserve Trigger

Trigger Rine Update:
All Players
Conditions:

Current Player has suffered exactly 3 of 'Update DC'
Actions:
Center 'Cannon' on Photon Cannon owned by Current Player at 'Update Location'
Create 1 rine at 'Cannon' for <enemy player>
Set Deaths for Current Player of 'Update DC' to 0
Preserve Trigger




Jan 3 2008, 9:15 am fm47 Post #7



What I meant by returning different DC values is that a kill of particular unit gives the player a respective amount of DCs.

Zergling - 1
Hydralisk - 2
Marine -3

etc, and detection of the DC value would determine what unit a player killed.. but I think that's what you put on the triggers.

Anyway, it works beautifully, but how come it's so different from the tutorials on SEN and Maplantis?
And I still have a question (thanks for baring with me)

Current Player brings at most 0 of [men] to 'updateDC'... the at most 0 of men is the same thing as exactly 0 of men, no?

And on a side note of questons: on the maplantis kill-to-cash perfect tutorial, flamethrowing traps constantly fire at a target that is 1/0 life or 0/1 life, how is that achieved?



None.

Jan 3 2008, 10:07 am NudeRaider Post #8

We can't explain the universe, just describe it; and we don't know whether our theories are true, we just know they're not wrong. >Harald Lesch

Quote from fm47
What I meant by returning different DC values is that a kill of particular unit gives the player a respective amount of DCs.

Zergling - 1
Hydralisk - 2
Marine -3
Yeah and I tried to point out that YOU have to set the DC depending on which unit got killed and not the killed unit sets it by default (like death counts).
Quote from fm47
Anyway, it works beautifully, but how come it's so different from the tutorials on SEN and Maplantis?
And I still have a question (thanks for baring with me)
Is it? It is a copy of the triggers in the Example Map by the inventor of the system. I just changed it by using 1 dc with different values instead of 1 dc per unit. That's a question of efficiency
Quote from fm47
Current Player brings at most 0 of [men] to 'updateDC'... the at most 0 of men is the same thing as exactly 0 of men, no?
At most includes negative values. But since sc sets negative values to 0 it has the same effect.

Quote from fm47
And on a side note of questons: on the maplantis kill-to-cash perfect tutorial, flamethrowing traps constantly fire at a target that is 1/0 life or 0/1 life, how is that achieved?
You must use the small box beneath the hp box. More info here but you still would need some experimentation I guess.




Jan 3 2008, 10:41 am fm47 Post #9



Alright, thanks for all your help. The example map was different from the two I've looked at, so my bad for not looking hard enough.

So everything works on the map I made just to do kills to cash, but when I actually have it in my RPG, the killUpdate location (the one that jumps around) moves to the computer's cannon, but when it is time to move to player's cannon, it moves to the center of the updatelocation (the one that overlaps all killupdate areas). Why is that?

EDIT**
I added attachment.

EDIT AGAIN (After attachment):
I noticed the problem was when I center locationed my killUpdate location on a pylon AT the killZone. If I change killZone to Anywhere, then it all works just fine.

I then went on and tested center locationing onto a non-existent unit in another location, then create a unit there. What I found out was that the moving location will move to the "anywhere" of the location the target unit was suppose to be into if it cannot find the unit... in my case, it appears that my moving location cannot identify that there is in fact a pylon in my killZone location.

While using "Anywhere" works, it limits me to one unit of the one that kills to update.

Attachments:
newK2K.scx
Hits: 3 Size: 24.31kb

Post has been edited 5 time(s), last time on Jan 3 2008, 6:05 pm by fm47.



None.

Jan 3 2008, 7:26 pm NudeRaider Post #10

We can't explain the universe, just describe it; and we don't know whether our theories are true, we just know they're not wrong. >Harald Lesch

The system works perfectly but you forgot to add a cannon/pylon for the orange player. (or don't let him own the update trigger)




Jan 6 2008, 10:14 am fm47 Post #11



what do you mean it works perfectly? What about the killupdate unit that keeps spawning in the middle of the killzone location? Does player 5 need any pylon/cannons? He's the enemy computer... and he doesn't have triggers. Could you check the map again >< i'm confused



None.

Jan 7 2008, 12:47 am NudeRaider Post #12

We can't explain the universe, just describe it; and we don't know whether our theories are true, we just know they're not wrong. >Harald Lesch

All players includes P1-P12.
That means Player 5 runs the update trigger too. Thats the ling update that is spawned in the middle.

Either add a cannon for P5 (then the centering on P5's cannon will work and the ling will no longer spawned in the middle) OR

run the update trigger only for the desired players. (e.g. not P5)




Jan 7 2008, 6:12 pm fm47 Post #13



you know, it suddenly makes a lot more sense. Maybe I was going too hard at it. Took a break from my map recently and looked at it again and what you've been saying, it's all coming together. Thanks nude :)

Though... the ling spawned for player 5's cannon is also owned by player 5... should I just place a location there and remove the unit?



None.

Jan 8 2008, 9:57 am NudeRaider Post #14

We can't explain the universe, just describe it; and we don't know whether our theories are true, we just know they're not wrong. >Harald Lesch

Quote from fm47
you know, it suddenly makes a lot more sense. Maybe I was going too hard at it. Took a break from my map recently and looked at it again and what you've been saying, it's all coming together. Thanks nude :)

Though... the ling spawned for player 5's cannon is also owned by player 5... should I just place a location there and remove the unit?
Oh, OK, my fault... Didn't check THAT exactly. Placing a cannon for him won't help ofc ;)

Erm why spending a location and create a unit just to remove it afterwards?!
Whats wrong with my suggestion to mark only the player that need to own the update trigger?




Jan 12 2008, 9:42 am fm47 Post #15



yeah, it works now. Sorry it took so long for me to reply, the semester just started and trying to pay off tuition and all :P

Anyway, the problem was that I wasn't clearing the enemy computer's death counters. That's what messed it all up ><



None.

Jan 12 2008, 8:36 pm rockz Post #16

ᴄʜᴇᴇsᴇ ɪᴛ!

There is one problem with the kills to cash perfect method: Only 1 person can get minerals per trigger run. If you want multiple players to get money, you'll have to change some triggers around and really think hard. Also, you might consider archons instead of cannons, since they fire faster, and they will take up less space. If you don't have air, I think flame traps are the best bet. If you get 4 flame traps going (put a 0 life unit for them to attack) they will pretty much always be attacking. I'm not sure what this does to the sprite limit, however. It is VERY fast, though.



"Parliamentary inquiry, Mr. Chairman - do we have to call the Gentleman a gentleman if he's not one?"

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