Staredit Network > Forums > SC1 Map Production > Topic: Classic Cat n Mouse 3
Classic Cat n Mouse 3
Apr 24 2012, 8:11 pm
By: Mouse  

Apr 24 2012, 8:11 pm Mouse Post #1



Classic Cat n Mouse 3
By StupidFred @ USEast
Original by beBoy @ USEast

~This is a remake of the original, but with some added features. The anti-hack is readded from the first version but updated so that it can detect hacks better. Updated spells, balanced shield batteries and bases, balanced unit prices, damage, hp, shields, and armor. Added Jump Mode for the professional Mouse players.

**The final version is due to release on May 4th, 2012.




Cat Spells:
All Seeing Eye (1): Protoss Observer
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Monkey Vessel (1+1)*: Terran Science Vessel
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Queen (1+1)*: Zerg Queen
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Mouse Magnet (1)
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Baby Cat (3+1)*: Torrasque (Ultralisk)
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Speedy Interceptor (1): Protoss Corsair
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Meltdown (2) I Kill Buildings (3)
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100 (or 120) Minerals (1+1)*
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Critter Bomb (5+1)
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2 Jail Guards (1): Zerg Sunken Colonies
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Burn Money (1) I Minerals (2)
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Kill All Stupid Freds (2+1)*
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Rigged Ball (14)
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*(_+1) means that you must have 1 extra Dark Templar instead of paying that extra Dark Templar.




Mouse Spells (Normal Mode):
Stupid Jeremy (Protoss High Templar)

Toggle Rally Mode

Stupid Devin (Devouring One)

Stupid Fred (SCV)

Mouse Hole (10 Max) (Terran Civilian)
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Stupid Jason (Protoss Reaver)

Fake Mouse: 75 Minerals - Creates a hallucinated Mouse that you can use to lure the Cat to buy Jail Guards or lure the Cat towards it on the map.

Second Mouse (2 Max)
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Restore Base Minerals: 600 Minerals

Transfer Money: FREE (Transfers Money to your Allies)

Transfer Ownership: FREE (Transfers all of your units to a dead Ally)




**Jump Mode: Prices rise everytime a unit is purchased. The player that is closest to first and has a Mouse is the person that gets to choose Normal Mode or Jump Mode.




Other Features:

Ban Beacon
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Switch: Turn $100 TO DT (Can be $120)
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**There are secrets in this version as well as the original. There is a different way to get heroes, and other units. Try killing the Brown air units with people that helped with the maps' name on it and see what you get. The Cat can get units such as another Cat, a Hyper Zergling (Zerg Zergling), a Nuke Specialist (2+1) (Terran Ghost), 75 Minerals, 150 Minerals, Spiker (3) (Zerg Lurker), Cat Builder (Drone), or even get BB Mode (3). A Mouse can get a Cat Builder (Drone), another Mouse, a Stupid Fred, 200 Minerals, BB Mode (3), a Cat Queen, a Rigged Ball (14), and a Cat Vessel. There's even a secret for Mice to mind control the air units without the Rigged Ball, but figure it out for yourself! There many more to come including personal heroes for the testers... Figure them out!

Screenshots:


Attachments:
Classic Cat n Mouse 3.scx
Hits: 7 Size: 121.69kb

Post has been edited 8 time(s), last time on May 12 2012, 9:33 pm by Mouse.



None.

Apr 24 2012, 8:39 pm UnholyUrine Post #2



A screenshot of the Terrain will show more than anything how much thought you've put into the map.
Sadly, you've protected it, so I am unable to do this for you or to take a sneak peak at it.

The problem with Cat and Mouse has always been that newer versions tend to add more and more features, taking away the core gameplay of old CnM games. CnM revolves around the interaction between the Cat and the Mouse, and not what units or features both players can buy.
bA few features is fine, such as the Jail guards, and observers,but remakes of CnM tends to put too much focus on these extra features that it detracts from the core gameplay, which makes the game awkward and annoying.

For example, Mouse Magnet, Kill all Mouse Buildings, Burn money and Kill all SCV's are all features that adds nothing to the core mechanics and will have most players annoyed. Mouse Magnet totally ruins the fun of micro-intensive players. Kill all mouse buildings is ridiculous and requires no skills or input from the Cat. Burn Money does nothing directly and takes the player away from his/her focus. And Kill all SCV's can be better handled with other units, such as Queens with Spawn Broodlings, which can spawn broodlings on SCV's but not on Probes.

Meltdown also represents a problem both practically and gameplay wise. First of all, it is impossible to decrease units HP by percentage, so what you would do is put a location on the cat, and set the HP of all enemy units to lower and lower %'s. However, if the cat moves to another set of unharmed units, it will cause the HP of those units to suddenly set down to a very low percentage or even 0% health, since your description suggest that the spell eventually does cause things to die. Even if you were smart enough to realize this problem and make it so that the location is only set once on the cat once Meltdown is activated, it still doesn't make any sense. Is the Cat working on a Nuclear power plant? Why would the cat be able to Melt things? It makes no sense, and it STILL doesn't stop units coming into the location just before the ability sets things to 0% HP, and they all instantly die.

Transferring Ownership also makes no sense, unless the Person is Dead. But, I'm assuming that, like in all CnM maps, once the mouse is dead, all the buildings controlled by the dead mouse player will die, along with his units. So, it's useless.

The game would be better if there are actually some thought put into these abilities for both Cat and Mouse. Focus on what little SC1 has to offer. Allow for micro-intensive gameplay, which is what CnM has always been known for.

It's easy enough for me to dismiss this because there're no screenshots, but I simply found your abilities and ideas encompass ALL the wrong things I felt about CnM and a lot of other UMS games.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Apr 24 2012, 8:49 pm by UnholyUrine.



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Apr 24 2012, 9:06 pm DevliN Post #3

OVERWATCH STATUS GO

I'm slightly confused. Are you working on this one as well as the Cat & Mouse Simple map, or are you posting this for someone else?



\:devlin\: Currently Working On: \:devlin\:
My Overwatch addiction.

Apr 24 2012, 9:27 pm Mouse Post #4



@Unholy: I am unsure how to post a BMP of it. I have tried uploading it to image shack, but it is not working.

@Devlin: I am also making this map. I have 3 maps going right now lol. This map I have been working in since August 2011.



None.

Apr 24 2012, 11:16 pm Mouse Post #5



@Unholy: You are completely missing the point of these spells.
-Mouse Magnet: It is very useful. It does not take away the micro-intensive players because you could be running one way when the Cat is chasing you and you would then be turned around by the Mouse Magnet and Cat gets you. I am a micro-intensive player and have tested this game publicly since November (No one has had any objections against these except you ha ha).
-Kill All Buildings: It costs 3 Dark Templars, so you have to get 3 Mouse kills. The point of that is so that the Cat has a chance later game. If you do not have a spell like that is worth more, then the Mouse has an enormous advantage in late game. It is the same as Meltdown. It gives the Cat an opportunity to get past the walls that the Mouse has in place with such high hit points and shields.
-Burn Money: This is actually one of the more useful spells and was in Classic Cat n Mouse 2. It isn't so that the Cat can just burn the Mice' money and say HA I burned your mins. It's a use it at the right moment type spell. I use it when someone is saving up to build a building with high hit points behind another wall. Because most good players wait till the other building has low hit points, you use that spell right before they build and they are screwed because they just lost their mins and cannot build it anymore.
-Kill All SCVs: It's also kind of the way with this spell, except it helps cripple the economy. It is 2 1 so you can use that extra Dark Templar with Burn Money and cripple the Mice' economy. If the Cat has 3 Dark Templars, then he has a right to do that and have a chance late game. I play this game everyday lol... I know when things are pretty unbalanced and this helps the Cat gain some control back in the game.
-Transfer Ownership: This can only be used when a Mouse is dead. Only someone that is alive can give their units to someone that is dead. It's kind of like say that a noob just got saved and you just died. While you have 7 upgrades of shields, the noob has 0. So what he would do is transfer ownership to me because I would have a much better chance of surviving.

Also, this map is not supposed to be completely micro-intensive unless the Cat is really good and keeps it micro-intensive for the Mice. If you are looking for a Micro-intensive game, then look at my Cat n Mouse Simple where there are no walls that you can hide behind and you are just constantly running/dodging the Cat.

Edit: Btw, I would love to post screenshots, but I do not know how to see the screenshots I take from my Starcraft game since they are in a .pcx format.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Apr 25 2012, 4:32 am by Roy. Reason: Try not to double-post



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Apr 24 2012, 11:39 pm iCCup.xboi209 Post #6



In SCMD, click on 'File' and then 'Save Image'




Apr 25 2012, 2:13 am Mouse Post #7



It saves it as a bitmap and those take up too much space for Imageshack to handle.



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Apr 25 2012, 2:14 am Dem0n Post #8

ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ

Resize the picture to something reasonable, like 850x850, and then upload it to a photo-sharing site that doesn't suck. Like imgur.




Apr 25 2012, 2:33 am iCCup.xboi209 Post #9



850x850 is crap though




Apr 25 2012, 11:45 am Mouse Post #10



Lol.. Thanks for the tips guys, but I think I found a mod that saves screenshots as JPEGS automatically, so need to convert it all. But I will upload it to Imgur cause Imageshack is so annoying ha ha.



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Apr 25 2012, 12:41 pm Azrael Post #11



I would suggest replacing each series of dashes in the post with



since it's being stretched a lot otherwise ^^

Quote from UnholyUrine
First of all, it is impossible to decrease units HP by percentage

It's possible with EUDs :kame:

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Apr 25 2012, 1:36 pm by Azrael.




Apr 25 2012, 4:00 pm Mouse Post #12



It's not impossible to reduce by percentage. It sets it to 100%, then to 90%, then 80%, 70%, etc. all the way down to 10% and then kills it. If you actually play the map, these would make a lot more sense. So please do not criticize it if you have not even tried out the spells (Meltdown, Kill All Buildings, Kill SCVs, Mouse Magnet, Burn Money).



None.

Apr 25 2012, 4:51 pm Azrael Post #13



Quote from Mouse
It's not impossible to reduce by percentage. It sets it to 100%, then to 90%, then 80%, 70%, etc. all the way down to 10% and then kills it.

What he meant was that it won't decrease the current health by percentage. Let's say it goes 100%, then 90%, then 80%, all the way to 20%. Then the cat moves in range of something new, and then it goes to 10%. The new unit will go straight from 100% to 10%. If another healthy unit moves in range of the cat just after this, it will instantly die when the meltdown hits 0%.

Is the cat able to move during Meltdown? If he's immobile while it's counting down, then I guess it really wouldn't be an issue.




Apr 25 2012, 5:52 pm Mouse Post #14



This is now moved to this topic.

Post has been edited 13 time(s), last time on Apr 25 2012, 9:08 pm by Mouse.



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Apr 25 2012, 6:28 pm TiKels Post #15



Please stop using the huge line of hyphens and use the [line] code.

It will look like this:



The hyphens are stretching the page and it looks bad to me :(

Second: A lot of the "features" you are listing are things that you did not add. You should take note of what are concepts you are adding and what are things that are from previous versions. I didn't give it a thorough reading, but I don't see a whole lot that you actually added. Stuff like "meltdown" is old.

Actually the only thing you seemed to have added to this game is the price inflation thing and maybe one or two spells. Also, secrets aren't a good thing in a competitive PvP game. I would recommend removing any sort of secrets. I'm not sure if this version has it, but a lot of the versions by beboy (an individual I consider to be the best CnM designer/player) had flying air units that you could kill for rewards. I don't consider these "secrets," fyi.

Post has been edited 4 time(s), last time on Apr 25 2012, 7:05 pm by TiKels.



"If a topic that clearly interest noone needs to be closed to underline the "we don't want this here" message, is up to debate."

-NudeRaider

Apr 25 2012, 7:19 pm Mouse Post #16



Okay, sorry. I do not even know that was what Azrael was talking about. I thought it was a copy/paste thing and it was not working lol.. I'll start using the lines.

Also Tikels, I added Kill All Stupid Freds (2+1), Mouse Magnet (1), balanced units, Fake Mouse, fixed Rigged Ball, fixed so much shit omg.. (Rigged Ball got Mice banned, fixed return from Ban for Mice, glitch that if Cat leaves at 0 seconds then a player gets a Cat and a Mouse, fixed a glitch where the beacons stay, disconnect banner, updated anti-hack, etc..) The Jump Mode I added as well, like you said. Yes the flying air units are in there. I am sorry I called those secrets because the general public did not know about them. Yes I know beBoy was a great CnM designer, even though the way he made his maps were odd trigger-wise.. Look at the map, the terrain is new as well.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Apr 25 2012, 9:14 pm by Mouse.



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Apr 25 2012, 10:51 pm TiKels Post #17



Mouse magnet actually sounds like a pretty cool idea, but it would only be so rarely useful for its price.

Fake mouse is okay.

Rigged ball, which is not even in the newest versions of CnM by beboy as far as I know, isn't even a serious unit. At no point in any CnM game versus players of ANY competence level should you ever amass that amount of kills. It's pretty much a joke for when you're playing against super retarded players. It's an insta-win scenario. Actually if you get that far you have no excuse for losing as a cat even without the ball.

Kill all SCVs shouldn't even exist in my opinion, but I'm not exactly as well knowledged with CnM as some people so my commentary on it would not be quite as valuable. It's an extremely volatile move. Pretty much flips the table as far as I can see.

You can try and say you "fixed so much shit"... but when you don't seem to be even working off the newest version it's pretty irrelevant.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Apr 26 2012, 12:56 am by Roy. Reason: Calm down, be nice



"If a topic that clearly interest noone needs to be closed to underline the "we don't want this here" message, is up to debate."

-NudeRaider

Apr 26 2012, 12:37 am Mouse Post #18



The latest version of Cat n Mouse is Classic Cat n Mouse 2 by beBoy @ USEast. I gave him sufficient credit for ideas that I put into this map.

I'm not going to argue with you until you play the game. Idk about you, but I actually knew beBoy and you think he was so great at map making. I even helped with his past maps, so please don't say fixed this shit... is so irrelevant" because I have the latest version. I even have some test versions I made with him after that version was finished and no one else has them.

Post has been edited 5 time(s), last time on Apr 26 2012, 1:07 am by Mouse.



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Apr 26 2012, 1:07 am TiKels Post #19



September of 2010 was the last edit by beboy himself? Really?

Looking at my maps, it's been a lot longer than I thought since I played cnm. Mine are all way outdated. On a tangential note, is starcraft 13 years old yet?

Also he changed the filename style a lot too? I'm not saying ancient aliens anything but it seems odd. Do you have any contact with beboy as to prove me wrong? I mean serious if you could have him be like "LOL TIKELS U SCRUB, NUB, HE DUN GOOD" I'd be quiet.

Edit: Yes I met beboy on a few occasions but never regularly. I was friends with t(u.ut) and such
DOUBLE EDIT COMBO: I'm sure I have a few odd testmaps as well. If I recall I even gave them a few tips, but it's been long since and I couldn't remember what. I think it might have been the UI glitch that lets you build units with 0 buildtimer.



"If a topic that clearly interest noone needs to be closed to underline the "we don't want this here" message, is up to debate."

-NudeRaider

Apr 26 2012, 1:08 am Mouse Post #20



I can't, he stopped using his old AIM from when he played Starcraft. But I have almost every map he has ever made, so if you want I can send you them.

EDIT: Also he stopped calling the Random Cat n Mouse after 5.1 and called 6.0: Classic Cat n Mouse Jungle (Random Cat n Mouse Jungle Classic), and then made 7.0: Classic Cat n Mouse 2.

EDIT2: I never met t(u.ut) D: I've always wanted to. He was a real crazy guy, but he was amazing at Cat n Mouse.

EDIT3: If you want I can show you the test map I was making with him for this version to show you that I'm not just bs'ing this and saying "Hey, I created this map. Give me all the credit plz."

EDIT4: I'm also sorry about getting mad, I thought you were saying my version was crap and irrelevant. Also Rigged Ball was added in Random Cat n Mouse Jungle 5.1 :) I'm not just adding a random spell. It's also fun if you are the Cat and the game is a total blowout because you have something to do instead of just doing another rm.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Apr 26 2012, 1:14 am by Mouse.



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