Defiler is the strongest zerg unit period, unless you don't research anything for it in which case its worse than a drone. Plague/Swarm > Guardian. Plague/Swarm > Battlecruiser. Plague/Swarm > Carrier. In ZvT the terran is usually forced to back the fuck up and try to kill the defilers. In ZvZ swarm gives you invulnerability from air, + 1 plague can wreck an entire air group. In ZvP the swarm gives you a huge ground advantage again, as long as you have some lurks. Of course there are situations where you'd rather have something besides defilers, but overall I'd say defilers are undoubtedly the most powerful unit. I ranked scourages so low because their use is very situational. Like, its really hard to fight 12 carrier or 12 battlecruiser or anything really with straight up scourage, but if you mix a few scourage in with a group of mutalisks it makes the muta's attack a lot stronger since the scourage dont get raped before they get to their target.
Those are all vastly unrealistic scenarios in anything but an NR15 game with complete newbs. I'm going to assume that's not what the OP is talking about. And it's scourge.
Defiler is a late game unit, at which point your enemies are also going for late game units. Seeing battlecruisers come out in a match between two evenly matched players isn't even close to "vastly unrealistic". There's a reason you have to tech through hive to get defilers.
As for the scourge**, my point was that its a complementary unit and not very powerful on its own. Taking out dropships, science vessels, observers are really the only jobs that scourge can do alone. Otherwise, they're good for assisting mutalisks with anti-air, but not really good as their own force.
Oh and Giggins, you're the one who asked for opinions, don't gimme that roll-eye nonsense
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So what you meant is this?
1 Overlord/drone
2 zergling
3 hydralisk/lurker
4 defiler
5 scourge/mutalisk
6 queen
7 devourer/guardian
8 ultralisk
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Defiler is the strongest zerg unit period, unless you don't research anything for it in which case its worse than a drone. Plague/Swarm > Guardian. Plague/Swarm > Battlecruiser. Plague/Swarm > Carrier. In ZvT the terran is usually forced to back the fuck up and try to kill the defilers. In ZvZ swarm gives you invulnerability from air, + 1 plague can wreck an entire air group. In ZvP the swarm gives you a huge ground advantage again, as long as you have some lurks. Of course there are situations where you'd rather have something besides defilers, but overall I'd say defilers are undoubtedly the most powerful unit. I ranked scourages so low because their use is very situational. Like, its really hard to fight 12 carrier or 12 battlecruiser or anything really with straight up scourage, but if you mix a few scourage in with a group of mutalisks it makes the muta's attack a lot stronger since the scourage dont get raped before they get to their target.
Those are all vastly unrealistic scenarios in anything but an NR15 game with complete newbs. I'm going to assume that's not what the OP is talking about. And it's scourge.
Defiler is a late game unit, at which point your enemies are also going for late game units. Seeing battlecruisers come out in a match between two evenly matched players isn't even close to "vastly unrealistic". There's a reason you have to tech through hive to get defilers.
Unless the players are bad, it is very unrealistic. I don't think I built more than a few BC's in a game in 3+ seasons of iCCup ladder, and only had them used against me very rarely. I was only D+, which is relatively pretty terrible.
I'm not saying Defilers are bad, they're pretty much necessary for Zerg to win ZvT. But they don't get used other than that because ZvZ only gets to hive tech in 1/100 games, and they don't do much in ZvP.
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just because a game doesn't last long enough for you to use them doesn't mean they aren't tremendously useful.
"Parliamentary inquiry, Mr. Chairman - do we have to call the Gentleman a gentleman if he's not one?"
just because a game doesn't last long enough for you to use them doesn't mean they aren't tremendously useful.
Exactly. You've pretty much said it yourself FaZ - Defilers don't get used in ZvsZ because it never gets to Hive tech. This means that other units are more cost effective when building up your tech tree - but if you get direct access to the units without having to spend significant resources (or if it's just a small incremental cost over the previous unit), then the fundamental cost problem is significantly altered.
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And ghosts would be useful if they did 300 damage, too!
It's pointless to talk about what "could be" if the game was different. The game is not different. Defilers are not very useful except in TvZ because they are not possible in a viable build. This is not theorycraft, this is fact.
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My map is going into late game and you don't have to worry about building cost. I just need your opinion on which units are better and which worse.
Although I like discussion.
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This is not theorycraft, this is fact.
This
is theorycraft. Haven't you noticed we're in the UMS Mapmaking Assistance Forum?
"Parliamentary inquiry, Mr. Chairman - do we have to call the Gentleman a gentleman if he's not one?"
My mistake then, I had been looking at this as a melee discussion.
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Vrael
