WikiLeaks Founder may be tried for espionage, article is found here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/29/AR2010112905973.html?sid=ST2010112906806

As the article states, there isn't a lot of precedence in the case which significantly weakens the government's case, and it looks like they'd have to get another country to turn him over in order to prosecute. So what do you think about the case?

To be honest, I find the most recent leak to be...well...kinda petty, and it is worrisome that it is bringing other countries into it. I don't approve of leaking - I think classified documents are kept that way for a reason (don't tell me you didn't see that coming), and so far the knowledge released has done little more than fuel the "see?? I told you the war was bad" type of discussions, which is honestly just a waste of time.

It's not about the war, it's more about enlightening naive citizens as to how our government actually operates- the differences between how it portrays itself and how it actually is. What it knows and what it tells us. It's far beyond need to know, it's more about class warfare. A large part of that is our ridiculous media, which, not surprisingly, has come out hard against the leaks. The problem isn't that leaking is occurring, the problem is that things that need to be leaked are occurring.

Also,

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The government also would have to persuade another country to turn over Assange, who is outside the United States.

Not happening. Ecuador has offered him no-questions-asked sanctuary, which pretty much ends the discussion.

Politics is a sham, all WikiLeaks is doing is making that more obvious. It's a disservice to a citizenry to keep them uneducated; that is what our empire seeks to do. It's incredibly ironic and revealing that the only thing our two political parties can come together to defend is their own establishment. Our government is selfish, short sighted, and incredibly inefficient- Assange hopes to see that change, and I can't say I mind him rocking the boat.

You can't unleak information. Why is this pointless drama still going on?

I agree with his supporters mostly. Getting those documents out into the public to keep the system transparent is certainly a worthy cause, but not if it endangers the lives of the soldiers that are still out there. All they had to do was edit out some key names and then release the documents, but this jackass couldn't even do that little bit.

Self-censorship is as good: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/11/28/104404/officials-may-be-overstating-the.html

Yep, I'm with Vrael on this one.

I have no problem for 100% transparency when it comes to documents and leaks of this calibre. Primarily, the only people who will spend the hours trawling through wikileaks are conspiracy theorists, or people that are just mind numbingly bored. Or curious.

FaZ makes a good point, that is pretty much spot on too. Governments and politics are smoke and mirrors. How they really act, what their real motives are, and what the ultimate plan is secret, it is all hidden. The mainstream media and how they depict stories and even, in some countries, what stories they choose to depict all paint a picture that is as far from the truth as humanly possible, yet still believable.

This stance makes me look like a psychotic conspiracy theorist with paranoia and a vendetta to boot. But the truth of it is, I am calm, level-headed and if you can't see the wood for the tree's, you should just enjoy living in your little bubble.

But, when leaks contain information of soldiers, families and anything relating to servicemen and women of any country, race, colour, creed or religion... that is beyond acceptable. It is as soon as the war can be scaled to the level of individuals that a line is crossed.

I am still waiting for the documents to be released regarding the Kennedy shooting and Princess Diana's death in a car crash all those years ago.

Edit: My stance on information is the same as my stance on material. Google: kopimi or wikipedia: The Pirate Bay.

Quote from Vrael

All they had to do was edit out some key names and then release the documents, but this jackass couldn't even do that little bit.

Quote from Cardinal

But, when leaks contain information of soldiers, families and anything relating to servicemen and women of any country, race, colour, creed or religion... that is beyond acceptable.

You guys haven't looked into this very much:
http://www.indexoncensorship.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Letter-to-US-Ambassador-from-Julian-Assange-26-November-2010.pdf

and the US response:
http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/documents/Dept_of_State_Assange_letter.pdf

They were given the chance, they refused. Centreri's link gives another chance, from NYT. As it is, there still isn't a single case I've read of an informant or "hundreds" as Palin puts it actually being caught from the leaks, that just seems to be a spout of bullshit because attacking these leaks is otherwise nearly indefensible. I do wonder how long it will take people to realize that. And... they kind of did edit out names from the IWL. Have you even looked at a leaked document? Lol.

There are a lot of people in the military doing this. I am in the Marine Corps and anyone caught leaking information to WikiLeaks is tried by a General Court Martial now, which is considered a felony offense.

It's still a big stink, because people are still donating information.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/11/18/sweden.wikileaks.assange/index.html?hpt=T2
Anyone else find this weird that this pops up at around the same time? Given, they were investigating for a while, but I hate how close this coincided with the release of documents.

It's funny that trying him for Espionage only makes the information on the site that much more credible.

Quote from From Linked Article

It is the first time authorities have mentioned probable cause. The molestation charge, previously mentioned in the case, has also been upgraded to sexual molestation.

Quote from From Linked Article

and one count of illegal use of force between August 13 and 14

Quote from From Linked Article

[the Swedish Director of Prosecutions] then said there was reason to believe a crime had been committed, but that more investigation was necessary

Emphasis added.

TL; DR version: Two girls have been talking and apparently they may or may not have had sex with Assange (WikiLeaks founder). Because Assange has a highly prolific and potentially 'dangerous' business in running WikiLeaks, we now decide to arrest him, in absence of him actually 1) knowing about his arrest, 2) informing him of this to any extent and 3) without any real evidence.

Quote from poison_us

It's funny that trying him for Espionage only makes the information on the site that much more credible.

Indeed.

Quote from Cardinal

Not really no. I'll be honest with you. Am I not allowed to have an opinion?

Of course; it's just common courtesy in a discussion forum to make that opinion an informed one before sharing it. What good is freedom of information and government transparency if no one actually goes to the root?

But seriously though. No one would ever have given shit about these documents had it not been of the current situation. Why do they need to be leaked? Why do people have to know about something they won't ever give a shit about? This is something that puzzles me.

Quote from Cardinal

TL; DR version: Two girls have been talking and apparently they may or may not have had sex with Assange (WikiLeaks founder). Because Assange has a highly prolific and potentially 'dangerous' business in running WikiLeaks, we now decide to arrest him, in absence of him actually 1) knowing about his arrest, 2) informing him of this to any extent and 3) without any real evidence.

Whether they had sex was never a point of debate, the issue is here:
"The investigation stems from separate encounters Assange had with two women during his August visit to Sweden, where he was applying for Swedish residency and attempting to secure the protection of Swedish free-press laws for his secret-spilling website. According to local news reports, the women told investigators the sexual encounters began as consensual, but turned non-consensual. One woman said Assange ignored her appeals to stop when the condom broke."
After it turns non-consensual it's considered rape. The charges against him are a couple months old, I believe, it's just recently that they decided to put him on an international wanted list for it.

The information leaked by Wikileaks are the cables from US embassies. The documents are much more embarrassing for the foreign countries that the embassies were collecting information on than they are for the US; this embarrassment is likely the source of the pressure that caused the investigation against him to escalate to this point. Come January Wikileaks is set to release incriminating documents about the practices of some high profile banks- this is the kind of information that it should be focusing on, in my opinion, instead of a few papers that embarrass a couple politicians for the things they say behind eachothers' backs.

I think they're funny. Calling Jim Jong Il flabby, Ahmedinejad Hitler, Sarkozy the "emperor without clothes" or Medvedev robin is hilarious.

However, I love what this shows. Everyone's saying that he should be killed. Oh, kind, just America.

The whole thing is a sham. Assange works for the government. The government is using this as "See this is why we can't have nice things. We need to invade peoples privacy and take away rights and censor everything."

Yep.

At first I was undecided about Mr.Assange between what he was doing and if this leaking could hurt people and it felt odd that Hugo Chavez supported him.

Eventually though I think I'm coming to support him. To me it's freedom of the media and if secrets are leaked and out in the open then we should be able to hold onto that and get whatever is left. Governments are very secretive and this leaking is at it's base a wake up call to the media and the people.

Also I found the random rape charge in Sweden out there. It's considered rape not to tell your GF your condom broke? OOPS! (jk LOL). Also no damning evidence for that case so...whatever.

I was on the fence for awhile, now I'm leaning towards being pro-wikileak. We definitely do need more transparency in the government, amongst a whole lot of other changes to say the least. There isn't too much that deserves to be kept a secret, exception most outstanding being current military operations, however some of the news reports listing details of ongoing operations boggled my mind.

As far as the sex thing, last I heard it was all bullshit and charges have been dropped. Popular theory being it was a smear campaign, even russian(?) leaders believing in this.

And what the fuck is this:

Quote from http://news.cnet.com/8301-31921_3-20025082-281.html

The U.S. government indicated today that WikiLeaks spokesman Julian Assange could be in legal jeopardy for disclosing classified information because he is "not a journalist."

When asked whether "traditional media" organizations that republish secret documents could be prosecuted, State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley said that the administration applauds "the role of journalists in your daily pursuits."

"In our view, Mr. Assange is not a journalist," Crowley added.

Quote from Forsaken Archer

Quote from http://news.cnet.com/8301-31921_3-20025082-281.html

The U.S. government indicated today that WikiLeaks spokesman Julian Assange could be in legal jeopardy for disclosing classified information because he is "not a journalist."

When asked whether "traditional media" organizations that republish secret documents could be prosecuted, State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley said that the administration applauds "the role of journalists in your daily pursuits."

"In our view, Mr. Assange is not a journalist," Crowley added.

Sounds like all he has to do is get a job with a media outlet that gives biased stories instead of facts to be off the hook with the government. Also sounds like the government "applauds" "real" journalists because they know what will be said.

Wow, I think I just came off as a conspiracy theorist. BACKSPACE.

Quote from poison_us

Sounds like all he has to do is get a job with a media outlet that gives biased stories instead of facts to be off the hook with the government. Also sounds like the government "applauds" "real" journalists because they know what will be said.

Wow, I think I just came off as a conspiracy theorist. BACKSPACE.[/color]

Couldn't he also just found his own journalism company and be like "JK I am a journalist"? Or am I extremely uneducated in this sort of thing?