It would be a gross error to pass judgment on all TS players simply because of the actions of a few bad apples we had come here.

Like I said, I'll look into setting my bot up somewhere else for future tournies, but anything already established gets to use Op SEN so as not to cause any confusion.

Polite equivalent

Nasty Equivalent

As I've Said:

That isn't true Unholy. I'm always actively involved with anything having to do with Op SEN. I may not agree with this, but it seems the majority wants a change, and so as I said, I'll look into it. I can't pull bots, CD keys, or established channels out of thin air. Further, I don't appreciate your tone, I did nothing to warrant such a response.

Alright...

eh... yeh, it's just that you've always been negative, so I was primed to give such a response

I agree with Excal. He actually gave a very good response, and clearly is willing to compromise.

I think this topic has basically run it's course. Let's keep this civil.

I think that it makes sense to use op SEN for SEN hosted tournaments for maps made by SEN members, but I also realize that it wouldn't be difficult to schedule future tournaments in an alternative channel. I say that EX passed good judgment on the issue, so next time one of us hosts a tournament, just work out an alternative channel as to not disrupt SEN. (as long as my HS one is still good to go as is)

Solution:

-Designate op SEN as the "social" channel of SEN, because we hardly discuss mapping there. Most people who hang out there either spam "TEMPLE SEIGE [sic]" or talk about non-SC related events such as math homework (*cough*) or relationship issues.
-With op SEN now designated as a social channel we must have another channel for mapping purposes. Not only does this avoid problems with concurrent conversations about different topics, but it also creates an easy way to distinguish mappers and people who just hang out in op SEN and afk.

Candidates:
-donuts (de facto mapping channel)
-op HCM (channel where I can set up a bot if needed)

Any and all SEN-associated channels will be controlled by the staff. It would be irresponsible to do otherwise.

We should make "custom maps" our mapping channel.

This.

No one uses it anymore, so SEN might as well take over.

I really see this whole op SEN channel issue as having a few key things, feel free to add on.

1. People were annoyed when one of the matches ended because they were unable to talk. This is true even when tourneys are not present, so the argument "oh it's just one day" is totally invalid.
2. Abuse of moderation by unwarranted bans and the like. Not only was heinermann banned, but my friend Caliph was banned for literally no reason at all. I had that taken care of, so no worries admins/mods.
3. The cluttering (similar to 1) of op SEN with individuals who know nothing of SEN, or only are here for TS. This is directly caused by TS. More than once have I had a person say "WHAT WOULD YOU SAY IF I SAID THIS CLAN SUCKED" or some similar ignorance.

Condensed:
1. Spam
2. Ban abuses
3. Users who don't really have any reason to be in op SEN for what it was made for.

Speaking of which, what is SEN's purpose? Like do we have a motto or mission statement or something? Is it "Pushing StarCraft to the Limit"?

Custom maps is censored. Certain terms (IE: masturbat (yes, masturbat, not masturbate), fuck, etc) come up as a string of predefined shift+number symbols. This wouldn't deter me from going there though.

oh no not donuts.

err why was CAFG able to moderate then...

I totally disagree with this, because it is just as irresponsible to NOT BE ABLE to moderate SEN as to have someone who is not prepared to do so.

Essentially, I understand that the staff cannot be in the channel at all times, nor be at every single tournaments, or mapnights, or what have you. This is why you need more of a community based moderation. Giving CAFG the banning power, I felt, was fine, since he was hosting a tournament that may as well be attacked by spammers and such, and since staff may not be on duty... (heheh .. duty) .. tho the way he handled it should be.. looked at.

Totally agree that we should take over Custom Maps

Its CAFG's tourny, which is why he gets access. For the HS tourney, Norm will have access. It isn't that the staff can't do it themselves, its that it is not our tourny to moderate, we aren't the host of said event.

Neither of these people are approved to moderate SEN, but they can run their own tournaments however they like. Because if their tourny sucks, no one will join their next one. Thus they get nothing by conducting a shitty tourny. They only have ops for the duration of the tourny, and that's fine. But we're obviously not letting them run Op SEN, we're letting them have ops in order to smoothly run their tournament. Ideally they wouldn't even need these things, but we all know how Bnetters behave.

The bottom line is for SEN to support ANY channel, we're going to have a bot run by a staff member as the main operator, or we're not going to grant it official support. If our name is going to be on something, if it is going to be associated with us, then we are going to set the standards by which it is run.

Ideally we would have 3 channels:
OP SEN (social/main)
OP SEN mapping (map nights should probably go towards event though)
OP SEN events (hosting tourneys, map night and whatnot)

During an event the main bot in OP SEN should have a greeting message redirecting people to OP SEN events.
Maybe the mapping and event bots should have a greeting message informing that OP SEN is the main channel. Or not, but that's dependent on how these channels are actually used.

If we don't have the resources to host 3 channels we should skip out mapping. So mapping discussions would be held in OP SEN. I'm not happy about (semi-)official channels not being moderated.

You can't put a space in a channel name and have ops for it because you can't put a space in an account name. The name following Op is the exact account name needed to moderate the channel. We will not endorse unmoderated channels.

Can you replace spaces with underscores or any other non-letter char?

Underscores work but I'd rather we work something else out. I'll be making my own proposal on the matter, and not to sound impolite but since I'm probably the one that is going to have to run the bots, handle access and moderation, and supply the CD keys, I'm going to go with what I can work with on this.

Yeah, didn't imply that this is the one and only plan and has to be executed exactly as stated...
Just my two cents.

I believe the best course of action is to use a separate channel. From what I read, we can all see that from experience the channel gets filled up for certain tournaments. This isn't really good for either party, first because people who are active in the tournament could be left out and second because people who aren't in the tournament who just wish to talk to other people will need to find another channel.

With a separate channel, which could be called op SENtourny or as previously suggested op SENevent, we can have both sides with their own channel. Just because a tournament is posted on the news page doesn't mean that the channel belongs to the tournaments and we would leave the others to fend for themselves. For all I know, we could get the maximum number of non tournament people in there before the tournament and then the tournament would be screwed. You can't ban people for being in a channel at a specific time, which is why it's best to have a separate channel for tournament purposes or other special events. It's like if Blizzard hosted a Warcraft III tournament and shut down the Starcraft servers because they needed the power. How would we feel against that? It's the same thing.