I was thinking about UU's point about us SENners not getting major website projects done, and I think we need a new way of managing them. I think we need a specific script for managing big projects. They'd be like clans, but there would be privileges (more space, colored title, maybe even post background) for being at a specific rank, an easier way to allow transfer of fairly large files, and a way to track progress or activity. I think we need to make projects, like Observer or website modifications, work like this: A person comes up with an idea, and either wants to pursue it himself or have someone else manage it. It's approved by the administration. He works with the script, creates ranks (image editors, Javascript coders, comic-idea-thinkers, etc), allocates privileges, etc. He creates a topic (or maybe make a better method of attracting people: maybe a front-page ad) about it to gather people who want to work on it, puts them at specific ranks.

Like a business executive, his job is to make sure everything progresses. There should be a specific rank with three or four trustworthy people that would look at various projects and judge their stage of completion, whether the privileges are deserved, and whether the manager is inadequate and needs to be changed to progress the project. If the project progresses, everything's fine; if people start slacking off, privileges of working on a SEN project can be revoked, and they can be booted from the project (by the manager, or the sub-manager who manages a specific part of the project). We could even try to play around with money a bit; make a [donate to those who worked on this] button on project pages where the work is displayed/used.

Anyway, that's the general idea. Major SEN projects like Observer, SEN-MOD, etc have all flopped; if we create a good system and incentives to work on SEN, we could start adding features in a hurry. We could extend this system somewhat and give permanent privileges to people who submit tutorials or create a fantastic method of getting something done or just create a very, very good map. I can largely imagine Dev, for example, being the permanent manager of website development where he still does most of the work but has a graphic designer to make images, a javascript coder to make SEN's various functions look very nice, and two more PHP coders to work separately on different major projects. As another example, we could have a project for DLDB testers, where people go through maps and approve or reject them; five people work on it, and one (the manager, presumably) chooses random projects checked to make sure they're actually testing them and not just approving/rejecting randomly. Or a DLDB-coding team that works to make it faster, work with more browsers, look nicer, and add features.

The bottom-up approach doesn't work because SEN is populated by teenagers who procrastinate without proper incentive. If privileges and bragging rights is a good incentive, this system should work.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Apr 20 2010, 1:58 am by Centreri.

I'm a bit confused as to what you are saying. Although, I'd say we just need a few people that will take the time to make major changes.

So what I got from what you said is: Give positive incentive for users to contribute to the overall site by giving them privileges. Right? Sounds like a good idea to me.

In all honesty, I think SEN just needs a shift in leadership, and a couple more people who are able and willing to contribute to large projects.

I can help out in the following ways: Learn Java, PHP (both should not take too long to learn since I'm already working with other languages), graphic design, social moderation. I should be able to stick around and be fairly active in these tasks for at least 2 years starting now.

I was actually quite specific. Try rereading it; if it's incomprehensible to more people, I'll try to rephrase it.

Quote from Centreri

I think we need a specific script for managing big projects

They'd be like clans, but there would be privileges (more space, colored title, maybe even post background) for being at a specific rank, an easier way to allow transfer of fairly large files, and a way to track progress or activity

It's approved by the administration.

There should be a specific rank with three or four trustworthy people that would look at various projects and judge their stage of completion

whether the privileges are deserved

make a [donate to those who worked on this] button on project pages where the work is displayed/used.

we could start adding features in a hurry

and give permanent privileges to people who submit tutorials or create a fantastic method of getting something done or just create a very, very good map

If privileges and bragging rights is a good incentive, this system should work.

I support this, but with reservations, especially about the underlined portions. Chances are that it won't receive the support from higher-up. It seems SEN is doing away with anything that can be used to give proper appreciation, other than a little symbol next to the name and a medal in the profile. If someone disagrees with my opinions, please let me know and I can back them up.

This sounds sweet, except for the fact, What projects will be done? But, everything sounds fine right now.

If this goes through, there needs to be a place where people submit their specialties. IMO

Ex.


Programmer: Y / N
If, Y, then:
Time ( program X ): • X - No Time

Map Maker: Y / N
If, Y, then:
• Years of experience: 5 months
• List your specialties: Unknown

Do you make SC Mods: Y / N
If, Y, then:
( I don't know anything about this section...)

Personal attributes: Great thinker, good at calculations, and organizing

Contract to your soul: Y / N ( lol )

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Apr 20 2010, 2:19 am by Newb.

Luls.. I went into hiding after I posted that...
Since I'm not banned yet... I shall write stuff...

I sort of understand where you're going with this.

When a New, and big plan comes forward, there needs to be a well established system of working out the system..

Let's take Map Night as an example..

-Let's say I want to revive Map Night. I would PM Any of the Staff about my ideas in how to revive it, and they would approve or disapprove (or direct me to people that would work on this). Once it is approved, the staff and I will work out a plan, and then post this plan out for the public.
-The public will then talk about it and try to fill in the spots that we have planned out for.
-The important thing is to work this "top-down", as in have project leaders and other people of diff "classes" or "project responsibilities".
-But the key point is that, on sen, there aren't any available systems on hand to help people with this.

I don't know, Cent. But you've made a good point.

We all know that Mods can't do everything by themselves, and some of them do great work in their area. But I really don't think we need a big court case to have people moderate certain areas.

I don't realllly think we need a "shift" in leadership.. but I think more spots should open up... Especially people that actually works for the community, and moderates community activities as a whole This person or these people are the ones to ask for hosting big projects that would require programming changes to SEN.

This way, anyone with a good idea may not need go through everyone's approval, or need to have a well established system before actually presenting it.. they can brainstorm with the person/people that are in charge of internal activities/events

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Apr 20 2010, 2:26 am by UnholyUrine. Reason: fixed a lot of grammar mistakes luls

I don't think we need to necessarily do EVERYTHING through a 'court system' - the moderation system is decent as it is, though it can be improved by encouraging appeals to global moderators. Actually, I'd reform it, too, but this isn't about that.

I just believe that a standardized framework that allows easy management of various SEN projects/'organizations', be they DLDB managers, DLDB coders, Wiki coders, an official mapping team, etc would help SEN. These projects could be managed better, and that allows for better optimization. It also provides a better framework for implementing privileges as motivators - not dependent on the whim of administrators to just give them away. The administrators (or whoever's overseeing the entire project-managing system) would allow specific privileges to be given out in a certain project (optionally, he could only give three post backgrounds, for example, for the manager to give to the best workers. And if they stop being the best, they're given to someone else), and the rest is the managers' job.

It's basically just delegation. Instead of a few select people doing most of the work and a few, like DavidCobb with the DLDB, contributing in a small way, it allows for effective delegation and motivation.

Mostly unrelated to this - we need active Admins. Moose is, according to Merrel, inactive, and we need someone who'll have more enthusiasm for running SEN and who'd do it in a logical way.

I'm not against this. If you can get Map Night running without the help of an established system, then we don't need this system for that purpose. However, for all the useful projects that never did anything (including map night, unless you revive it), this system will help.

I support this, although cent's nagging lessens my enthusiasm

Hmmm Revive Map Night eh?

And bi-weekly week long mapping tournaments! I just need to find a judge to help me out with that so I can start another one up *cough Unholy*

We are just procrastinators as a whole Cent, although I think that every plan is worth a shot and I desperately miss where Observer was heading.

Quote from CecilSunkure

Quote from UnholyUrine

Hmmm Revive Map Night eh?

And bi-weekly week long mapping tournaments! I just need to find a judge to help me out with that so I can start another one up *cough Unholy*

What am I, chopped liver?

I'd go for map nights

I totally aggree on having more members starting contests, brining up news and or helping with some coding (which for now is not really necessary as I'm getting done nearly everything being requested) and as you people mentioned the map and mod night several times I would not mind coding the whole tihng: the only problems area ideas.
Feeel free to make a topic about that or start discussing it in here. You'll have my support.

And for the contests, I guess I'll (one day) add a contest system with points and such, similar to minerals except for you would not be able to use the store or different stuff like that.
Maybe, some sort of contest-forums would be nice ?!

I expect contribution from other members on this, but I imagine the script for it will be something like this:

It'll be based on the clan script. Indicators that you're in the 'clan' (project) and rewards would include things like name-additions (For example: DTBK[SM] for DTBK on the SEN MOD team), colored titles/names (but let me keep mine, please), expanded PM/Attachment space, post background (moderated to be tasteful and unobtrusive, of course), and whatever else we can think of. The projects will be managed hierarchically; that is, one person on top can delegate jobs to those below him, and those can be delegated to those below him. So, the hierarchy will be more like a tree and less linear than the current clan hierarchy which is based simply on rank. Projects will be managed by the project manager, who is allocated certain resources as rewards - for example, the DLDB-coding manager can give out one post background, two title color changes and several more PM/Attachment space improvements. For this to work really well, the 'item' system should be adjusted to allow for easy transfer of these rewards, those given for that project, from one member to another. If the person gets the reward and starts slacking off, it can be transferred (tie it to project, though, so the managers can't edit around rewards for other projects).

Other features not present in the clan script that should be implemented (or are present and I don't know them) are, in the project memberlist, a simple "Last Active", a "Project Note" (For example, "going on vacation, brb in two weeks" or "Just sent images to Dev, awaiting feedback") and an activity meter (maybe on a scale of ten, maybe with no limit; not sure) so that the manager of the project, or a submanager of the project, or his submanager, etc, can keep track of activity (increase when he does something, for instance; maybe a note section here too, to allow managers to note what that person has done.). For certain 'projects', like DLDB management, etc, their should be integration with SEN as a whole; for example, it should be able track how many maps a DLDB manager has approved over what timeframe automatically by extracting that information from the DLDB. Giving a project the ability to extract data from other sources like that should be only in the power of the administration, however. Also, the project page should include information about who currently has the rewards given to the group.

Because this system has everything needed for corruption (the rewards are the cash, the managers are the corrupt ones) there needs to be a specific project controlled by someone trustworthy, maybe even the administrator, who will control maybe two or three people to whom members of projects can report "corruption" (for example, a manager that delegates, takes the only post background for himself, and does nothing material for the project). Members of this 'project' will have control over other projects and the ability to replace inefficient (if the SEN observer project doesn't progress fast enough, for example, the manager is likely inefficient) managers.

I think I elaborated nicely. A member will approach the administration with an idea for the project. If approved, either he becomes manager or administration chooses a manager for it, who posts an ad, maybe in a separate script or maybe as a topic, for members. People will say "I'm interested in helping, I can do x", manager will add them. The administration will allow the manager to give out three post backgrounds, two name colors and five title colors. The manager gives them out to those he perceives to be the most helpful and useful members. There will be competition to be seen as very helpful, because people like standing out in a crowd. Productivity will rise. If a member is inactive or doesn't help, the manager has the tools to boot the member from the project and replace him (oh, and log all of these actions). If the manager is corrupt/inefficient, he can be reported to the project-manager-manager-project members, who will look at what's been done, and judge if he's fine or not.

Projects that I can see existing once this is implemented: SEN SCII Map Night, SEN SCI Map Night, SEN SCI Mod Night, SEN Observer, SEN Coders, DLDB Managers, SCII System Creators (to write complicated scripts in Galaxy to allow for advanced functionality for other mapmakers; like WCIII's vJass, or an alternate physics system, etc), maybe even moderators.

I would do more than background support this, if I had any expertise other than being a lazy high schooler. I could make stuff, but then again, this is a mapmaking website (despite what others may think), and I don't think physical goods is what you have in mind.

Well, as a
I'd like to help in any way I could, but I am not able to do scripting, so I guess I could be used for something else, though I don't see what.

Sounds like a good proposal. Ideally, every action would be wholly transparent. That is to say, every piece of data and every action regarding a project would be publicly available. (IOW the public would have access to some very comprehensive log files.) If a manager becomes corrupt, everyone sees, everyone knows, and anyone can contact a mod. (If it's a particularly bad offense, an angry mob could even nuke the manager's karma for it.)

At the same time, controls would have to be taken to prevent people from just spontaneously forming angry mobs at the slightest change... That'd be the tricky part to manage -- how would we prevent situations where people don't understand a particular change, misinterpret it, get pissed off about it, and report/karma-nuke whoever made the alteration?

That's why I think it shouldn't be completely transparent. Really, if the people in the group don't care if their manager isn't giving them free stuff and it isn't reported, it's a victimless crime. I'd say let everyone in the project see everything done and leave the punishment to the administration/management.

Looks good, from my point of view.

So... is this just an idea that the admins think might work, or is it planned to be implemented at some point?