Roaches are strong, but lack HP and deal 50% to small units. Enough marines will chew through them.

A few siege tanks never hurt, either. Ever.

Roach is more of Tier 1 unit and tanks are Tier 2 unit.
Put massive number of bionic units with stim pack and medics against Roach and you will win, I promise.

Reapers aren't what they used to be... They originally were the hero marine on steroids but that was too OP Vs most units when massed. I really didn't like the new reapers at first but understood by firsthand experience why they were being nerfed.

Lately on 2.51 and up whenever a Terran sends reapers at me I just start on getting extra early Guardians and Ultras if playing Zerg, Voids if Playing Toss or Goliaths... In T Vs T the Goliaths always slaughter reapers fine except for the first 1 - 2 early spawns.

Like Lanthanide said you need to adapt to each version independently...

lol Terran owns so much now. I went pure bio vs a zerg 1v1 without any gol/tanks aside from 1 fac for BC/Wraiths/Nuke and I must say, I love the way you included vults like I suggested a while ago .

I think it is incredibly hard to lose to zerg when going pure bio as terran early game as you can easily whittle down the roaches. Late game you need to be switching to wraith/BC either just before or just as the zerg is otherwise you get steamrolled by guardians stacking, even if it is just 5-6 Guards.

It is lots of fun for me to make huge spawns of pure bio/air armies and I must say I love this version. Tanks suck in it in my opinion.

Oh, then now would be a good time to post this replay I have.
---

Usually the scourges knock the T off balance. Notice how swarms never came up until he got tanks. T should take notes on that bit. Of course without tanks you could get steamrolled by ultras, but swarm is pretty menacing. And there's no one saying you need siege tech.

Attachments:

Not sure if this is reported, but im playing Z (im blue) and yellow is zerg, and his larva spawned in my base... lol...

Early scourges Vs Sci Vessels are soooo easy to deal with, just make 1 - 2 Starports to act as decoys that fly ahead and compliment them with Goliaths. Don't forget the range upgrade sooner than later. I sometimes do that proactively Vs Zerg knowing the scourges are coming soon.

I always get the seige upgrade (since Lanthanide toned down the difference many versions ago) and found nothing else brings down the silo faster especially if you get a few into the cell bonus spawn. As far as tanks go as a counter to swarm, you don't want them rolling under it since they are not melee units. You want them seiged far away from the mess to pick off the enemies that emerge. Tanks will also spread out, seige and defend each other too. They still tend to drift towards the mid-bottom of the map and seigebut not nearly as bad as those early DS versions.

Yeah, happened to me once too but it just seems like a harmless glitch. 6 allied larvae spawned with 1 enemy extra, just kill it or ignore.

This issue just sprung up with the new 6 larvae cap. My best guess is that when units spawn at 0:00 the buildings change color as if given to another player with the bugged larvae created right at that moment which does not get destroyed or given to the player after the spawn completes.

A seemingly related bug I've noticed is with buildings (particularly armories/spawning pools/robotics facilities) that flash to the spawn color getting destroyed. Very very rare but happened last night on my other comp (playing Terran) and I'll upload the replay if it works. My teammate playing Toss also had it happen too that same game to a robotics facility. In addition I swear I saw a SCV parked near an Academy move to automatically attack it during spawn but stopped short..... Hadn't commanded it to do anything for several seconds yet it suddenly moves....


Anyways, I would like to thank Lanthanide for all the time an effort put into this project. Regardless of the minor issues discovered and patched, DS Night is one of the top UMS maps I have ever played!!

Well, if you watch the replay, the devourers don't start casting swarm until siege tanks. Infantry targeting them did not cause them to cast swarm.

As far as early scourge vs. science vessel. The Z has a few options. He could roach, build more spires, or just pour more resources into ground army, especially ultralisks.

Yeah, I think they're definitely the fastest way to bring down the silo as they can do a lot of damage with just a few shots. Reavers now do more damage but obviously take a long time to get to the silo, are more wiffy when it comes to firing and cost more than tanks.

Yeah, no idea why this happens or what I can do to alleviate it I suspect it's largely just a function of the diagonal pathing: if I made the map bigger so the battlefield could be strictly horizontal I think it'd mostly go away.

If anyone has a game where this bug happens, PLEASE remember to save the replay! I'd really like to solve it. I'll investigate your theory Rivalz as it sounds likely, but I think the larva should be created for the CPU players or P9-11 only (if their hatcheries can even make units?) not the enemy human players. Shouldn't be any triggers that give larva between players either.

Definitely upload this replay. As for the SCV attacking the building, they're given to P9-11 for 1 trigger cycle as part of the phased spawning system that helps with map max, so if P9-11 are hostile for human players then that would explain it. Anyone know if they are, and if so, can I make them allied? Previously all spawning happened inside a 1-2 trigger cycles so I guess units never had enough time to react to the hostile nature of the buildings, whereas now it takes 2-3 trigger cycles.

No problem, I'm just glad it's so popular. I really like DS but just got fed up with the poor quality in the other maps. I've got a stalled Blood Pressure Marathon map too that significantly overhauls it and makes it a lot more fun, but there's a huge amount of work to do on that. Probably won't ever finish it, with D3 coming out and DS Night taking up so much of my time.

Assume you mean defilers here. IIRC you have to research energy upgrade before they'll cast swarm, so it's possible the enemy simply hadn't researched it.

Perhaps we can play a game of TvZ and I'll make you eat what you wrote and potentially never play Terran against Zerg ever again.

Lol cool down, this is just a forum of a game. But hey, if we see eachother online, feel free to challenge me to a 1v1. I won't stop playing any match ups, they are too fun and the game should be fun too. If you act like a jerk during the game, then I may potentially never play with you ever again but otherwise it should be fun .

Here's the replay, was too sleepy early this morning to view it. First noticed something amiss on 2.61 a few days ago while playing Zerg but originally thought my ally had destroyed one of my spawning pools to protest against building them lol

It is definately a spawning issue where the buildings change color... Never noticed the color change on the actual buildings in your versions prior to the 2.6X update.

First incident happens to Blue's very first robotics facilities made at 2:50 right before the spawn. Right at the exact spawning moment his probe moves and destroys it.

Second happened to me (Green) at 29:39 after Raider's silo was destroyed.. The SCV near the top Armory moves towards it slightly right at spawn but stops short.

Third happened at 35:40 with the same SCV at the same Armory. I used an insta and at that precise moment the SCV destroys that Armory.

Attachments:

Yeah, prior to 2.6x the spawning cycle was always completed in 1 trigger cycle. I actually said up there 1-2 but now thinking about it again, it is always 1 trigger cycle per team, just 50% of the time both teams will go in the same cycle and the other 50% the top team will go in the cycle before the bottom team. But in each case it's fully completed in 1 trigger cycle.

The new phased spawning system means it always takes 2 trigger cycles to fully spawn, so there's a brief window where they can attack the building and destroy it and where you will see the different colour on the building (usually your CPU's colour). I'll have to see if I can make the human players allied with P9-11 to fix it.

Will definitely be releasing 2.63 this weekend with this fix, hopefully the larva fix and some small balance changes (buffing void rays a bit, weakening firebats a bit).

when your zerg and you upgrade before you spawn it kills your building

Please elaborate what you mean.

I definitely consider myself good-mannered in game. I never say 'gg' as the winner and other stuff that would piss the opponent off. If the opponent starts trash talking to me though, I do have my ways reacting to it..

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Apr 19 2012, 6:14 pm by HSL....

I'll have to save a replay for you, but I have had issues with an evolution chamber being destroyed when i build the 8th one. If max roaches are already on the battlefield and I try to build my 8th evo chamber, the triggers destroy it, telling me I'm only allowed to build 8 (even though that's what I tried to do).

Yes, you definitely will have to get a replay for that, because I just checked the (very simple) trigger and it will only happen if you have 9 evo chambers. Number of roaches on the battlefield has nothing to do with this trigger.

I have a replay to share. I was teamed up with Zhujun and was owning the opponent like a boss, but check out the very end when one of the players rage quit out of the game and that triggered to 'steal' some of the buildings including the sunken colony. I find this bug utterly hilarious.

Attachments: