I'm not sure why everyone seems to think Corsairs are so strong. They really aren't. They do 7 damage, and since most air units have 4 or 5 armor, that's already reduced down to 3 or 2. Small units like mutalisks then take only 50% of that, down to 1.5 damage. Most other air units are 'large' so take the full amount. The splash damage itself is a fairly big radius, but again is only something like 25-50% of the initial target damage, so a BC that is getting splash damage might take 1.5 damage. Since BCs have 350 hp, it'll take 234 splash shots to kill one outright. Meanwhile a scout will do 20 damage per shot and kill a BC in 18 shots.

Valkyries are only weak because their attacks get removed by the SC engine limitations, otherwise I'd have them a lot weaker than they are. I tried to compensate for this by making them quite strong and limiting their numbers. If I were to limit corsairs on the same basis, I'd be increasing their attack to about 10 up from the current 7. But frankly Protoss needs disruption web vs the strong terran ground armies, so limiting corsairs would hurt protoss, unless in turn I weakened terran ground. It starts to become a big cascading chain of balance changes which becomes very difficult to manage.

Totally agree with Lanthanide. If you put a huge battle between Protoss air verses Zerg army, the Zerg will win with the right combination. Do note that not only devourers attack the corsair, but also hydras. On the other hand, the only ground unit that attacks the devourers are archons (Dragoons don't count, please) and if the map gets crowded, the archons can't even approach to the devourer cluster or get destroyed by the guardians.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Mar 25 2012, 5:07 am by HSL....

Probably everyone thinks Corsairs are so strong, due to their numbers/splash damage/d-web, or probably from playing 1v1. Since in the long run on a 1v1 match, Protoss air will always win. Even though Mutalisks take less damage from Corsairs, they still aren't good to used due to their short range and the time it takes for the Mutas to react and attack. Devourers are better for them. Versus T, Corsairs will destroy Wraiths, but will take a little more in numbers to be a good match vs BCs.

That was my initial thought process exactly. but do simmple thing. buildin' air, build 8 fleet beacons and 25 stargates vs terran and try to loose. i mean u'll see that problem is really in corsairs, it seems they are weak, but they just don't shoot ground, and that's a problem. u can't build wraiths to clean them out to get to carriers

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Mar 25 2012, 10:09 am by Fierrary.

Strange, i thought 6-8 corsairs can put a lot of Dwebs. of course it will hurt protoss, but Dweb is also too good vs terran. so i c no point in balancin' terran's ground army. i still find few stronger corsairs to be a good idea

As i played mass devourers and/or mass mutas die pretty fast from mass mass stargate units. mb if u gave us replay...

Thought: @Thor removing Dweb: Actually, any unit could do this. Periodically cycle through all Dwebs on the field and remove any that are too close to a given unit type. Goliaths or Valkyries could do it quite nicely, as they are anti-air units. This would clearly nerf Dweb, allowing ground units to assist more against the Protoss air. In theory.

AFAIK you can't give dwebs between players, so that wouldn't work. Also goliaths are one of the main things corsairs cast dweb against thanks to their huge range, so that would really defeat the purpose of dweb entirely.

I may also add the dispel ability to the medivac in some limited fashion, as it does fly around the battlefield a lot.

Since someone mentioned about corsairs being OP, I think that this replay is very relevant to that argument.
Until this time, I thought the best way to beat Zerg as Protoss was getting out the right combination of Stargate units + Templars (both citadel of adun and Templar Archive units) + and Reavers, and this guy completely ignores my idea and decides focus all on Stargate units and Carriers only. And my oh my.

I could've built even more greater spires to counter him, but I do have to admit spawning more than 150+ Stargate units can be very powerful.. Not OP, but powerful.
By the way, the ending of the game is so ironic considering one player was clearly dominating throughout the game. Win or lose, I think it is a very memorable game for both sides..

Attachments:

On an unrelated topic, I want to re-bring up the issue of Dark swarm being OP against ZvT.
The attached replay shows the highly abusive usage of Dark swarm when I realized my Terran opponent was actually quite decent. I am surprised he did not rage quit in middle of the game. He tried to make lots of tanks for the splash damage but that was no good. He could've made more firebats, but I doubt that was the viable solution against Ultralisks. Clearly, giving the Thor to remove the Dark swarm is not enough. You might as well as give the ability to repel dark swarm to ghosts since they are never used against Zerg as of now.

Attachments:

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Mar 27 2012, 5:35 pm by HSL....

Another glitch: Happens right off the bat in this replay. The cells explode immediately and Green Player gains control of the Cell Broodlings which become invincible. Check it out, hilarious.

Attachments:

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Mar 29 2012, 3:28 am by stimmed..

Perhaps. I've found mass firebat + siege tank to be most effective vs. swarm for a "muscle your way through it" type of deal.

Haha, funny replay.

Not entirely sure why Green player received the broodlings and not Tan CPU as you'd normally expect. Anyway it happened because the infestor that was hanging around dropped some creep in a spot that prevented the prison cell for the top team being placed, so the triggers to detect that the top team didn't have a cell fired, causing the bottom team's cell to be destroyed and replaced by broodlings. But you'll note that no hybrid got create for the bottom team, just the broodlings.

These placements issues used to be fairly common after I introduced the cell, due to creep getting in the way, so I added triggers to fix it up. The broodlings have been a more recent addition and evidently they are done in some separate triggers, so they still got created even though the hybrid didn't. The triggers I put in place to prevent the creep being dropped were quite complicated compared to the original triggers, but evidently the location I am using to exclude the creep being placed (only during the intro) isn't quite large enough, hence this bug.

Long story short, this is easy to fix.

Any news on updated 2.52 version? When is it coming out? (no pressure, thought)

There are SO MANY people using 2.56 these days that I've given up convincing that it is the fake version.

I've kept putting off doing any more work on it because I've mainly got hard/time-consuming things left to do and I've been spending a lot of time fixing up my house (almost entirely finished that now, though). Need to get into a good work-mode to do it. Most likely it'll be the last release, since D3 is coming out. I have a 4 day weekend this week because of Easter so I'm planning to hopefully get it finished and out by Monday.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Apr 3 2012, 8:16 pm by Lanthanide.

can you make a option to allow or not allow allied units into your base so if they are attempting to destroy your buildings you wont let them? and also add a ban back in please because theres alot of BSing.

when u lift up your factorys to fast it only refunds for one add-on when really there was 2 or 3 in the process can you fix that?

reavers need a little dwarf of 5-10 damage too they're a bit op at killing Silos.

Do you have any suggestions for how this could be done?

This map has never had a ban option.

Thanks, I wasn't aware of that as I almost never play Terran and no one else has reported it. I will have a look and see what I can do. I think you must be lifting them off very very quickly for this to be happening, though, since you can't hotkey multiple buildings.

They're weaker than tanks at killing silos as their scarabs are slower and do less damage and tanks are further away. Reavers are annoying because they do explosive damage, so they only do 50% damage vs small units like reapers, which are something that Protoss struggle against.

I think the answer here is you just have to get the units that counter reavers: void rays, banshees and guardians, as well as your own reavers, tanks and ultralisks.

Protoss has a huge disadvantage in special wars. It is very unlikely that 1 or 2 Protoss players will win if a special battle decides the winner. Lanth, do you think you could reduce the shield battery build time by a couple seconds to counter the 4-5 second Protoss build delay?

If Zerg is countered as soon as the opponent sees the decrease in minerals, Infestation still gets some good damage. Terran will obviously get about 3.5 to 4 bars. In the same situation, Protoss will hardly even get a single bar (mainly if going at 0-3 seconds and then getting countered at around 46 seconds), making MC quite useless, respectively. To add to it, it is the most expensive special.

What are your thoughts?

As someone who pretty much plays exclusively protoss, I've never had a problem with the strength of the protoss special. It does take longer to build and cost more, but I think that is simply part of what makes the protoss special different from the others. In fact I often win the special war when the advantage is stacked against me - then again I am an above-average player, particularly when it comes to specials.

The zerg special is best when used against lots of weak units like zerglings and marines because it replaces them with stronger units, but not so good vs archons or void rays because they get replaced by generally weaker units. The protoss special is best when used against stronger units like BCs, guardians and archons and weaker when used vs marines and zerglings.

Can't wait for you DS 3.0

It seems like 2.56 is so much more popular now even though it's a fake..

I only play 2.51 and every time I own the opponent, they're giving me excuses that it's different from 2.56.