Zhuinden - Yes. From the get-go, if you start a 3vs2 game, the 2 side will be appreciably bit stronger than the 3 side, and this is even further pronounced with a 1vs3 game where they get 30% bonus. I initially implemented it as a 10/20% bonus but it just didn't seem to be enough to make any real difference. Also the bonus rates aren't constant due to the way minerals work in this map - the bonus is the set amount, +/- 2-3% and it varies with the number of mines you've built - at the start the bonus is something like 18.75%, but when you build a mine it goes down to 18.18% and with 2 mines it drops to 14.29%. The 0 and 1 mine bonuses are the largest differences in the game, playing at double mineral rate, or with 1 vs 3, the actual bonus rates are much closer to the 15% and 30% targets.

Note that in practice this isn't a *huge* difference: at the mineral rate of 17/second (3 mines), it takes you 15.9 seconds to save up for a $270 gateway for 4 zealots. At 3 mines, the bonus is 14.71% for a rate of 19.5/second, or 13.8 seconds to save up for a $270 gateway. Obviously the big ticket items like reavers, BCs and other air units will have a bigger differential. Alternatively, when someone has saved up for 7 gateways at normal rate, the other person would have money to build 8 gateways after the same period of time - this takes 111 seconds, or almost 2 minutes, before the mineral rate has an outright advantage in terms of zealots on the ground (the main advantage is getting zealots out quicker, rather than total number of zealots).

However consider it in this light: in 2 vs 3, if one of the weak team players builds a mine, that drops that teams mineral rate down to 50% (logically 57.5% if you include 15% bonus), whereas if one of the strong team players builds a mine, that team's mineral rate is still going at 67%. Sure, the strong teams 3rd spawn will be a little weaker, but they have 2 other spawns to help counter that, whereas the weak team only has 1 other spawn to back them up.

I have found while playing in 2vs3 or 1vs2 games before I made the change that the weak team is often under a lot of pressure just to pump units out to get HP onto the field, because whenever they build a mine and lose their income, the opposition team has a greater ability to pump units. This means the weak team often ends up putting out lots of cheap, but less effective units, while the stronger team can generally tech higher and has much more leisure to build mines, and eventually get an income advantage that the weak team can never hope to keep up with. This is also a downwards spiral - the more pressure the strong team puts on the weak team, the more the weak team has to defer building mines and must build cheaper units.

Ultimately the 15% bonus will not really help the weak team when it gets to end-game specials, so weak teams will generally need superior strategies to win.

Finally there is a psychology factor at play - if someone on your team drops or quits, knowing that you are being compensated with a bonus 15% mineral rate makes it more likely that you will continue to play the game, which is generally in everyone's interests. At first glance, coupled with the spawning mechanism, it seems like this 15% bonus is going to be of huge benefit to you, but I hope as my above points make clear, it really isn't a huge overpowering bonus, but really something that helps keep the playing field even.


And yes, there are units in this map that are based on their SC2 counterparts where possible, although many SC1 units remain (such as Dragoons, Dark Archons) and others have simply had name changes to make them more in line with SC2 but really they still behave the same (Corsair -> Phoenix, Firebat -> Marauder, Vulture -> Hellion).

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on May 25 2010, 12:49 am by Lanthanide.

It never ends, of course.

New version 1.87: http://www.staredit.net/?file=2203
- Spire is now 1.5 scourge 1 mutalisk, from 2/1.
- Spire -$7
- Scourge 0 armor (from 4), +10 damage
- Mothership will now kill up to 2 extra scourge every cycle
- Mothership -2 armor
- Ultralisk +2 damage
- Hydralisk -1 damage
- Terran Armgeddon now kills all enemy heroes

The main thrust of this update is obviously the scourge. I just played a game where the enemy zerg built about 30 spires, and it just wiped our air units out time and time again. This was partly because scourge obviously do a lot of damage, but mainly because they were a huge HP reseviour for the zerg, and all of our ground ranged units would waste shots on them. So reducing the spawn rate, while upping their damage a little, should tone them down quite a bit.

Mothership armor was reduced because it seemed just a tad strong.

Ultralisk and Hydra were rebalanced. In an earlier update I made Hydralisk do 14 damage, but this just seems a bit much - they fire at twice the rate of regular Dragoons (Immortal in this map) and doing 14 damage gave them quite a high DPS, and since you get 3.5 per building it was just a bit much. The ultralisk went from 6 armor down to 5 a few updates ago but now the ultralisk seems a bit weak, especially compared to the Archon which can also attack air, so this along with the hydra nerf should give it a bit more punch.

Armageddon fix is because I found, unlike the other two specials, Armageddon didn't kill enemy heroes, when really it should. This was obvious when a Medivac survived, and started healing all of the enemy units back to full health (after they had been set to 10%).

Hmm.. I've always seen Spires not used so much in the map. People usually go for Greater Spires and spam Guardians/Devourers. I've tried using Spires and seeing if they would be good but Scourges always seemed weak in my opinion but oh well, your version of the map

Anyways I had some questions for the "Share Tech" upgrades and Protoss. You said the upgrades share like Zealot speed, Marine stim and range, Zergling speed and attack rate, and spell upgrades right? Does the top team share the upgrades with the bottom team? I really doubt that but I'm just making sure. I had a 2v2 game a while ago, it was Protoss/Terran vs Terran/Protoss. My partner was new to the game and left but oh well. But anyways, I was making Templar/Archons and I only researched Hallucination. I was about to research Storm and the energy upgrade for them but the timer was almost at 0 and I thought I would wait until after. Then when I clicked on the building again, the storm and energy upgrade were already researched. It was weird since I was the only Protoss. The Templars just used storm as always but I'm wondering, why did it get researched without me paying minerals for it?

My other question was for Hallucination. How much energy does it use compared to Queen's D-Strike Night? Is it the same?

Yeah, spires are not used as much as they should be, which is why I'd never seen anyone doing a mass spire until then. But when I saw it, it was apparent that there really was a problem there. Note that Devourer's damage has been reduced compared to Final, and Mutalisks have had their damage increased by 1 IIRC, which means the Mutalisk + Devourer combo is much better than just straight Devourers.

As for the share tech upgrade, the "problem" you have discovered is particularly apparent for Protoss. No, upgrades have not been mistakenly shared from the top team. What happened is the enemy has researched storm/energy and a Dark Archon on your side has MC'd one of their Templars. Upgrades share between team members, as well back from the field. Whenever a DA MC's an enemy unit, it permanently gains any upgrades from that unit, and in turn they are shared back to you to prevent you wasting money - there's no point researching Dweb if your DA's have already stolen it for you (fairly common, as is reaver damage and carrier capacity).

This is a little confusing and probably people who notice it will think that the map "has bugs", but really this is an intended feature. And I have had a couple of people ask me in-game what was happening.

I'm at work so can't check the map, and I'm not sure how much energy it costs to cast Hallucination because I did tweak some of the spells a bit, but a High Templar without energy upgrade will be able to cast 2 Hallucations and 1 Storm (not accounting for energy regen), and with energy upgrade can cast 3 Hallucinations and 2 Storms. This pattern applies for most caster spells (2 MC + 3 Maelstrom etc).


I may be making another version, as it looks like I got the prices for Hydra movement and Ultralisk movement mixed up! If that is the case, I might consider bumping scourge damage up a little more (check number of scourges needed to kill specific units and bump up damage until they can kill units easier). I would also change the Terran Armageddon to kill a wider area of units at your temple (players use it as a counter for Infest/DJ, and it doesn't work very well) and give the spider mines more damage and HP because right now they aren't quite punchy enough.

Ok, new version, 1.90: http://www.staredit.net/?file=2203

• Swapped ultra and hydralisk speed upgrade cost as they were backwards
  
• Spider mines +50 damage, +50 hp
  
• Bigger boom area around temple for Nuclear Armageddon
  
• +50 HP Banelings (they just seemed to die too much)
  
• -2 viking ground damage
  
• -4 viking air damage
  
• +1 wraith air damage
  
• -1 BC air, ground damage
  
• +$40 BC
  
• +$10 vikings
  
• +1 damage reapers
  
• -$10 marines
  
• -$10 reapers
  
• -$20 tech lab (unlock reapers)
  
• -20 shields, -10 HP scouts
  
• +$20 void ray, max 5 (from 6)
  

As you can see, a lot of this focusses around the Viking, as I found they were a far better option for Terran players than Marines: only cost $40 more, but have more HP and did more damage vs ground and air and early investment in vikings would help in late game, whereas marines wouldn't. I also never really see anyone build (m)any reapers.

Also nerfed Terran AA, primarily from the viking (since they can get a massive 8 range with upgrade) as well as made BCs a bit less attractive, as the normal terran strat is just to go all BC.

Protoss Air is probably a bit too strong vs Terran, as their units all have about the same HP or more, and void rays can just be a bit too powerful when massed.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on May 30 2010, 9:56 am by Lanthanide.

New version 1.91, weeeee.

• Found a nasty bug where if one team used a Boom during a Divine Judgement / Infestation, it would prevent all specials from working again in the future
  
• Nuclear Armageddon was sometimes setting newly spawned units to 10% HP when it shouldn't've
  
• +$30 battlecruiser
  
• -1 valkyrie damage, +10 hp
  
• +20 shields, +10 hp scout (reverse of previous patch)
  
• Spire now 1.25 mutalisk / 1.5 scourge, from 1/1.5 respectively
  
• Greater spire now 0.75 devourer / 1 guardian, from 1/1 respectively
  
• +1 armor mutalisk
  
• -10 hp devourer
  
• +$30 spire, -$30 greater spire
  

More rebalancing to air, particularly for Zerg as you can see. The real difficulty with balancing Devourer's is their acid spores: the +1 damage isn't a big deal, but the +12.5% cooldown per spore really shafts enemy units from being able to attack, especially for BCs. This rebalancing of the spire/greater spire makes the GS cost the same, but should make spires a bit more attractive compared to GS for air units. Bumping armor up for the mutalisk makes them a bit more usable, as previously with 3 armor they were the lowest of all air units (except scourge/interceptor/void ray).

Protoss air really seemed to lose it's punch with the scout nerf in the last patch; you had to build lots of stargates before it felt like you were having any sort of impact. -1 damage for Valkyrie should tone them down a little vs void ray, whose shields they would rip to shreds very quickly as their attack spans a long period of time, so some of it would hit either side of the VR's cycle. Compensated with an extra 10 HP.

Okay, so I've just encountered a person who is willing to host only 1.86, because he says you messed up Terran so much that it's not worth using it in 1.90 - and considering you just continued to make it worse, I have a feeling he won't update to this version either. xP
Because I for one don't really see what Vikings can do now. They seem weak.
Also I never understood Thor. It costs a lot, but it has.. 7 armor - and it just dies and does almost nothing for that 1500 cost of his.

Terran air was simply way overpowered, and the viking especially was very strong because it can get a massive 8 range. In protoss vs terran, you had to get dweb to even have a chance with terran air, and that's simply because it knocked out the vikings. That seemed a bit overpowered and kinda unfair to me. Ghosts are the big counter to Protoss, which I've said in many games, but most terran players simply don't built them, either out of arrogance or ignorance that they exist and come with free lockdown.

The nerfs to zerg air will in turn make terran air more competitive.

Vikings are more cost effective than Marines: 2.5 viking at 140 HP gives 350 HP for $345, or 1.014 HP/$, vs 5 marines at 50 HP gives 250 HP for $285, or 0.877HP/$. Vikings are much more viable late-game than marines are, so really there's not a lot of point in building marines, especially in 2x mineral mode. In 1.86 I was seeing Terran players simply build vikings, tanks and BCs, which is boring and IMO indicates that those units are too strong.

Having said that, I wouldn't rule out putting viking ground damage back up 14 (was 15) as I note they have a slower cooldown compared to marines, and can't get healed or stimmed. Also, although I'm less convinced, the -4 air damage could've been a bit too big of a nerf, because of course they are double penalised by armor, and most air units now have 4 or 5 armor, so they do just 14 to 16 damage against them, compared to the old 18 to 20. I might consider putting this back up to 26 damage, instead of 24 like now. Another +1 damage to wraiths could be in order, too.

As for the Thor, in earlier versions, like <1.75 or so, it was very very powerful because it spawned unlimited Thor tanks. Now it spawns 9 stationary tanks and 3 mobile tanks. You do know about them, right? They're the main benefit of Thor. But yes, it could probably use an armor bump and perhaps some more HP, as many other things have changed in balance since those stats were put in place (Void Rays, Ultralisk damage bump, Archon armor). Also it costs 1235, not 1500.

Also someone has reported to me that in two 1vs1 games they were playing, their enemy had a sequence of 3 spawns that were skipped. I saw this bug once a long time ago, like back around 1.50 or so, and thought I'd fixed it although I didn't know how to reproduce it. If anyone sees this, any ideas you have towards what might cause it would be appreicated. I'll have a dig through the triggers again and see if I can spot anything.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on May 31 2010, 12:12 pm by Lanthanide.

Oh right.. I actually forgot about Mind Control also gets the techs of the unit. Stupid me D: Anyways, I was asking about Hallucination because in the versions of Queen's D-Strike Night, I would like how the Templars would hallu their army before they go off to fight and it would help during the battle. As for your version though, they don't really use it at all and there's really no point in spending minerals researching a spell if they never use it. So I was thinking if maybe you could give Templars Hallucination already researched so maybe they would use it like before?

Aside from that, it does sorta seem like you're making Terran weak. I barely use Terran but they always feel weak to me. I'm not one to just make BCs like most other players do, I make Ghosts along with Reapers and Marines. But Vikings need their strong anti-air because they already have a hard time with Protoss and Zerg air. As me playing Protoss, I always get D-web as it's always needed. But it never feels like much to take on Terran. People don't get Marines or Reapers because of their low HP. Reavers, Storm, Plague, Guardians kill them all off so easily. I'm just saying in my opinion, Terran needs a buff on their ground units.

But I'm glad though that you're making Devourers a little less than it is. Yeah those Acid Spores can be really bothersome for air units. And also making Spires more useful too.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on May 31 2010, 5:31 pm by Leon-037.

Here's a bunch of possible balance ideas, give feedback please:
- Roach, max 8 (currently 10).
- Wraith +1 air damage
- Banshee +1 armor, -10 hp
- Reaper +1 armor, +$10, maybe -5 hp?
- Marine +$10, +0.5 per barracks (trying to avoid reapers always being better)
- Medivac +10 hp
- Thor +1 armor
- Crucio Tank (non-siege) +6 damage
- Nuke should kill all units in enemy spawn buffer (infest/DJ kill all units in enemy spawn buffer)

Most of the changes above should have obvious motivations, but the crucio one in particular I want to highlight. Terran ground probably is too weak compared to Protoss and Zerg, almost leading to the point where Terran are forced to mass ground units to compete, which is traditionally a Zerg-like attribute (and Zerg are still better at it due to small, cheap buildings). I suspect this is because the Terran simply don't have high-damage ground units apart from the Siege tank, which itself has obvious problems. The Protoss have got Immortal (26), Archons (42) and 2 flavour of Dark Templar (49/52) all of which do pretty high damage, while the Zerg have got Roaches (16) that fire quickly and Ultralisks (30) and can also quickly swarm lings and hydras, and also have plague. The two other hard-hitting terran ground units are the Firebat and Vulture, but because they do concussive damage they're not much help against most enemy units. Giving the mobile tanks +6 damage should go quite a way to evening this up.

As for Hallucination, yeah, they don't use it a whole lot. Sometimes they do, other times not. I'm disinclined to make it freely researched, because most players don't actually like hallucination and would prefer their High Temps to use storm, and frankly I agree. Ideally they would use it if it was researched, but there's nothing I can do to encourage that (I am already running a protoss custom AI).

I'll also put short descriptions on the hero buildings, because a lot of people ask what they do all the time, or are surprised when I say "Medivac heals" - thought that'd be obvious from the name.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jun 2 2010, 12:03 am by Lanthanide.

Right, new version, http://www.staredit.net/?file=2203 1.92 which fixes a bug where infestation and divine judgement, if the left-most enemy units on the field were hallucinations, would get stuck and prevent other specials from being used. Now, if it detects hallucinations there it will kill them and complete as normal.

Balance is mostly described as above, but not completely:
- Roach, max 8 (currently 10).
- Wraith +1 air damage
- Banshee +1 armor, -10 HP
- Valkyrie -10 HP
- Reaper +1 armor, +$20, -5 hp
- Marine +$10, +0.5 per barracks (trying to avoid reapers always being better)
- Medivac +10 hp
- Thor +1 armor
- Crucio Tank (non-siege) +6 damage, Crucio Tank siege -5 damage
- Nuke kills all units in enemy spawn buffer (infest/DJ kill all units in enemy spawn buffer)
- Hero buildings have short descriptions on them

I actually just played a game where a terran player built all reapers to start off with, instead of marines, and maxed out with 6 medics early on. It was really quite effective. Hopefully with the armor buff, reapers will be more effective as supplementary units than they were, while still not being too overpowered when massed.
Hits to be killed by enemy unit:
Zealot/Firebat 7 from 5
Marine/Zergling 18 from 16
Hydralisk/Golaith 10 from 10 (actually 9.5)

Most other units are unchanged in the # of hits required to take down a reaper, but end up being slightly more damaging because obviously an ultralisk doing 26 damage to 90 HP is slightly worse than one doing 27 damage to 95 HP.

Lanthanide, there is a giant exploitable glitch in your spawning system. I'll tell you more in detail in PM... If you send me a PM first asking me about the exploitable glitch. xP


edit: Oh, and by teh way. There is some stupid borked up glitch that after a terran player leaves on the top, the purple player in the bottom right corner might get the upper guy's gas buildings. This time I had 4 refineries and 6 assimilators as a protoss player, and so I could not build a goddamn Mothership, and I could not get the right area.

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Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jul 1 2010, 1:39 am by Zhuinden.

New version, which is likely to be the final, 2.01. There might be a couple of 2.00 floating around on b.net, but hopefully they will die out / not be hosted.

Download: http://www.staredit.net/files/2203/

• Fixed spawn exploit (with credit to Zhuinden in mission briefing)
  
• Added SEN URL to mission briefing, might as well get publicity from a popular map
  
• Fixed (probably) gas bug mentioned by Zhuinden above
  
• New 'Army Spawn Size' leaderboard after units spawn, so you can compare army size vs enemy team
  
• Gas built leaderboard should no longer occasionally glitch
  
• Small random delay to detectors, so both sides are no longer in sync/mirrored
  
• Mothership +1 armor, +5hp (was dying just a little fast)
  
• Citadel of Adun (Dark Temp/Archon) -$50
  
• Lenassa Dark Templar -10dmg, Zer'atai Dark Templar -7dmg (Protoss don't need tanking ground units like this, they have Archon and Collosus already)
  
• Dark Archon -15 hp +15 shields, can now cast Feedback with energy tweak, see below for more details on Mind Control
  
• Corsair, High Templar energy tweaks, see below
  
• Collosus +15 hp, +15 shields, Scarab damage upgrades -$50 each (total -$200 for all 4)
  
• Observer Sensor Array -$20, Booster -$10
  
• Council -$20 (unlock Immortal)
  
• Think I have weakened Divine Judgement for Protoss so that it kills more units now, can't remember and haven't checked triggers (done many weeks ago). This means counter-DJ's are less effective now
  
• Brood Lord +18 hp, +1 armor (infestation unit)
  
• Swarm Guardian +11 hp, +1 (infestation unit)
  
• Infestation has extra chances to spawn Swarm Guardian
  
• Lurker +5 hp
  
• Devourier -1 dmg
  
• Swarm Guardia +$10, +25 hp +2 dmg Ultralisk
  
• Wraith -$10
  
• Banshee -1 dmg vs ground
  
• Max 10 Ghosts buildings, max 25 on field at once. -$10, +2dmg. Ghost energy tweak, see below
  
• Battlecruiser -10hp spawns as hero type 50% of time, does 29/27 damage or 27/29 damage. Collosus reactor and Yamato both -$30, Can now cast 2 Yamato and 3 with energy up (vs 1 & 2 respectively)
  

So the main balance change in this version was to Dark Archon Mind Control, which really completely raped Terran BC's to the point where the protoss didn't need to build (m)any air units and instead could just build a DA army. Instead of putting a cap on DAs, I came up with a phased solution. DA's will never cast MC on Hero units, so now 50% of battlecruisers spawn as heroes (Norad II - Duke). The hero ones do 29 air 27 grnd while the regulars do 27 air 29 ground, so it means when a DA does steal a BC, it will be less able to take down the other BCs.

I also did a tweak to DA, High Templar, Corsair and Ghost energy, where massing many units will cause some to start with lower energy as a balance measure. The Dark Archon one is complex, so I will detail that last.
High Templar: Spawn with 100% energy, starting at #6 and every 2nd thereafter, spawns with 60% energy (fewer storms)
Corsair: Spawn with 100% energy, starting at #7 and every 3rd thereafter, spawns with 56% energy (must wait ~20-30 seconds before being able to cast dweb)
Ghost: Spawn with 100% energy, starting at #4 and every 2nd thereafter, spawns with 40% energy (without energy up, cannot cast lockdown for ~20 seconds, with energy up can cast it once)
Dark Archon: Spawns with 80% energy - enough for 2 MCs with energy upgrade. Starting at #4, and every 4th thereafter, spawns with 100% energy - Feedback is now researched by default and costs 250 energy, so a DA with 100% energy may cast Feedback instead of MC, which is obviously a weaker spell. Starting at #6 and every 4th thereafter, spawns with 45% energy - just enough to cast 1 MC with energy upgrade.

MC costs 105 energy, so spawning at 80% energy means without energy upgrade each DA starts with 160 energy and can cast only 1 MC initially. With energy upgrade they spawn with 200, just shy of being able to cast MC twice off the bat. Then every 2nd DA starting at #4 will have either 100% energy (can cast 2 MC or 1 Feedback) or 45% energy (90 or 112 with energy up, so 0 or 1 MC depending on energy up). This means DA's will generally cast many fewer MC's than they did in the past, but they are still potent if you get a group of them and research energy upgrade.

The ghost energy change is actually not much of a change at all - for a while whenever you built a bunker 1 ghost would start with more energy than the other, for 0/1 lockdowns or 1/2 with energy up. This change has actually made it so the first 3 ghosts now have enough energy for 1 or 2 lockdowns, and it is only the 4th/6th/8th etc onwards that can cast 0 or 1 when newly spawned.

Yamato and the energy upgrade were made cheaper, and the energy cost reduced, because hero units in general never cast spells, so by making 50% of BCs into heroes we will generally see fewer Yamato's fired.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Jul 26 2010, 10:46 am by Lanthanide.

Well, a guy named DFND-Minion@USEast said that "he has received complaints about the AI of 2.01". No idea what exactly that means. But it means something.

Yeah, well that's so vague as to be useless. I put SEN's URL in the mission briefing so if anyone wants to come here and make comments, they easily can.

Also I've had numerious people mention specifics about "the AI" while I was developing the map, saying things like "tanks seem better" or "queens seem better" or whatever, but generally I haven't done anything to change them at all. Likewise if particularly parts of the AI seem stupid, there's very little I can do about that as well. There was one distinct thing that I noticed, where units from the north would all sneak along the bottom edge of the map, like 95% of the time, I mostly fixed that although there is a still a little tendency for them to do so, but that's more of a pathing issue and is again not very tractable to solve.

Specific "AI" things I have mucked around with: detectors (and targeting cloaked units), lurkers, mothership/infestor/medivac movement. If the 'AI problem' falls outside that area, there really isn't much I can do.

Oh, you have to research Mind Control now, too, which frankly I think is probably a bit OTT, so I *might* release a 2.02 where it is researched by default, and any other tweaks that might be necessary, or any AI changes if these 'problems' can be substantiated.

Glitch regarding the torassque.

Could you be more specific. That's not actually enough information to track down what the problem is, and fix it.

What happens? When does it happen? Does it affect both teams? Does it happen only for the 2nd torrasque spawned in a game, or can it also happen on the first torrasque? Does it happen when both torrasques are on the field at the same time, or only when one is on the field?

Details detail details, without them, I don't have a hope in hell of fixing it.

Edit: I just asked someone on b.net if they knew what you were talking about. They said in a game they played, they killed the enemy silo (after their silo was killed) and the torrasque that came out of it never died, and it went on an unstoppable rampage and killed them. They had a mothership on their side at the time. Is this the same issue you're talking about? Can you provide any further details that might help me track down the problem?

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Nov 12 2010, 4:34 am by Lanthanide.

We killed the enemy silo after ours was killed. While the torrasque was on its rampage, one of my teammates used Divine Judgement. This caused the torrasque to become ours. It went on a rampage and somehow never died.

Hmm, looks like two issues then. *sigh*

There should already be triggers in there that account for Divine Judgement usage, so I wonder how you managed to steal it.

We also nuked it a few times & i think it got hit with an infest too. Didn't do squat to it, just kept on going. I got a screenshot of it for shits and giggles if that's any help.

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