Obviously you're not familiar with Quantum theory.

Obviously you're not.

Quantum immortality for, example, says as observers, we follow the path of preservation from an infinite number of any possible outcome. Randomness can happen, creating offshoot realities, but everything you experience is not random.

It depends on what you mean by Fate. The Bible teaches that God is in control of everything, and what He wills happens. So in some sense, Fate is what Christians call God's plan for us.
Wait what? Where does it say that?

(Fairly) well put!

There's no such thing as god, that's a silly idea.

And no, I don't have a fate? I can choose to do what I want to do, when I want to do it and for whatever reason I want. If you stamp the word 'FATE' on that, arguing that what I chose to do was what I always was fated to do; you're being fucking awkward and the answer will always be yes because you won't handle no.

All this quantum theory shit... useless. Even if we were in infinite amount of universes making an infinite amount of choices, who cares?

I'm sorry you think that.
What you chose to do was what God always planned for you to choose.

So just wondering, a/the G/god/s forced us us to argue over his/her existence/s? Why should a/the higher being/s care about one finite planet in the infinite universe and the electrical impulses that go through one species' minds?

I believe that there is no set and defined purpose for human beings except for what nature (or "fate") intended: for us to make more humans.

A decent respect to the work of our forebearers requires that you treat the matter a little less flippantly.

Who can know the mind of God?
That's a pretty limited and depressing view.
If that was true, we're here to make more of us, to make more of us, etc.

Remember this topic is not meant to be a God debate. Sure, it can be relevant, but only in the form of theological determinism. The question is:

'Is the concept of fate compatible with Atheism?'

And the question of 'What constitutes fate?' is also important. I've already said my piece on both but once again it seems the discussion is going down the God route.

Why does it even matter if there is fate? You can't know what happens as well as anyone else (unless you believe in a God)

Personally, since I believe there is no God, fate doesn't exist. There is nothing that knows what will happen in the future so therefore fate doesn't exist. You'll probably say "How can you determine there isn't some factor that has determined the future?" and I would respond with "I would go with my gut and feel that my life would feel less depressing knowing that I can make my own choices and decisions at any given time. If time travel were possible, then you could possibly go to the future to see your fate. Until then, fate = null."

Is that not the purpose of all living organisms?

Back to the original question:

I'm sure that some atheists out there believe in fate. If I'm correct, atheism is not a religion, (so some Buddhists and people of other religions may be labeled as "atheists") atheism is a belief.

I don't see any reason for that too be the MAIN reason for humans at least. Animals maybe. But then maybe you believe we ARE animals.

Animal, as per Wiktionary: "a multicellular organism that is usually mobile, whose cells are not encased in a rigid cell wall (distinguishing it from plants and fungi) and which derives energy solely from the consumption of other organisms (distinguishing it from plants). "
...

I consider animals to be that, but with the distinction of not having souls/minds that can make rational decisions like humans can.

It's absurd to say that Humans aren't animals. The self of misplaced arrogance towards our species is disgusting. You're not more valuable than your pet cat or the bear that lives in the woods 20 miles north of you. And for that matter, a Soul isn't a real thing. And most (at least mammals) are able to make rational decisions... How do you think they survive for so long when surrounded by many predators?

This is essentially just the classic argument of Nature vs. Nurture, based on the OP.

Saying that a God has already decided your life is a sorry excuse for living a poorer one than you otherwise could have. And God also made that criminal do that crime, so we can't punish him without spiting God. Who are we to question God's will yadayada etc. The whole concept of divine predetermination completely fails to align properly with required tenets of any religion or even the most basic of social and authoritative governmental structures.


Prove (or give any evidence whatsoever) that you have a soul. If not, draw a line that determines what a rational decision is and what a rational decision isn't. Many animals (besides humans) are capable of problem solving, intelligent reasoning, and inter-species communication.


I'd like to believe in fate. It's a nice concept, and it gives impetus for many things - but it's not substantiated.

First off, 'rational decisions' was a bad word choice on my part.
Yep, that's a really bad excuse for living a bad life.

God's will WANTS us to punish evildoers and criminals. It's pointed out many times in the Bible. So we'd be questioning God's will by NOT punishing that criminal. And I don't know a huge amount about this, but I do know that it isn't God doing the crime. It's the criminal. So the criminal can't say that God MADE him do it. Again, I don't know a huge lot on this point but it would be more accurate to say that God already knew that he would do that crime, and He is allowing the criminals sinful nature to take control.
It aligns well with Christianity, and western governments were built on Christianity. That's a pretty unsubstantiated remark to say, although it IS null xD.
I have a soul because I can love and hate and have pity and be cruel etc.
Yep, my bad word choice. More like animals aren't humans and vise versa because humans have a soul and have non-physical emotions, as well as a far greater mind and ability to think.

So I see it has taken about 2 posts for this to go off topic again.

In the OP, what Kame was describing was not fate. Rather, she was describing a type of determinism. Determinism (in its many forms) is essentially the belief that, to whatever extent, who we are and our actions are determined by something other than our own free choice. Now, there are many types of determinism, including theological determinism (i.e. that a higher power determines our actions) and biological determinism (our unique biology determines our actions in a given situation).

I've already discussed the issue in the thread and I really don't get why the discussion keeps coming back to issues which bear little relevance to the important questions. Whether or not the Bible says X is not important - it's just a detail. The concept of the soul is interesting but nonetheless a different topic entirely.

What's important is the big picture - what is fate, what is determinism and can these concepts live side by side with atheism. I think the answer is a yes to determinism as there are many flavours of it which don't involve a god, and a no to fate because it implies the action of forces outside of nature.

zany, do you not realize that the ONLY reason you are Christian is because:
1. You just HAPPENED to be born within a Christian family
2. You have a gullible personality/a lesser tendency to question the world around you.
If it were not for these two conditions, you'd "be going to hell."
Ask yourself why you don't believe in the infinite other religions which existed since the dawn of mankind. If all you can come up with are subjective experiences like "Oh, I FELT God, therefore, he must be real" then you're not alone. I can show you a guy from Iraq, India, or Israel who would say the same exact thing, but instead about THEIR "one and only" God(s)"

Why doesn't he get off his lazy ass and do it himself? How do you know what God wants? How can you talk on behalf of somebody you aren't even sure exists, let alone what he says? Why does this all seem like a poorly written story full of plotholes? Why does God seem less and less omnipotent/omniscient as one reads more of the Bible? Why are there talking snakes, rib women, giant floods that wiped out God's mistakes, virgin births, people turning into pillars of salt, the conversion of water to alcohol, and when all of a sudden when everything is able to be recorded/taped/verified, it just STOPS? And if you start telling me to stop taking things so literally, YOU DON'T GET TO CHOOSE WHAT'S LITERAL AND WHAT'S NOT. And plus, the only reason your religion exists is BECAUSE of the Bible's literal words. It's a vicious cycle.

ffs