friday or saturday sounds good

1.5. I mean, just give it a try, even if it is a tourny, why can't we still test it out?

I think it'd be cool to have the next tourny theme be randomization, We randomize the teams by every contestant submitting his name, and we randomize heroes.

Let's take it a step further and randomize the version to be used for each match.

I considered this.

The way I see it, there's only two good options. MT and 1.5. Sure 1.5 still has some balancing issues to address but I've been helping Urine sort them out. It seems lurker's s4 is kind of insane, it rapes cannons hard. I don't see a problem with marine having +3 honestly, maybe I'm just use to the days it had +4, that was insane. +2 makes marine a useless chump unless your a manarine. M4 and M5 isn't even worth talking about. M3 sims are useless I feel the final match in the tourny using M3 is a perfect example of that statement. So all in all it comes down to MT or 1.5, since most people don't know alot about 1.5 I feel this should be asked again after 1.5 is finished and released to the public.

I don't know how you can say that when M5 is the most bug-less TS version out there. It's not as easy a choice as you make it out to be - you are actually selecting between 2 extremes(Not talking about MT): either you have a wimpy +2 marine with a not-as-useful Lv1, or you have God-Mode Marine with +3 and the most broken Lv1 that makes mines look like night vision. MT might be the best version out there so far, but it won't be getting progressively better like the other 2.

Here is my mathmatical argument using the ranged heroes using attack speeds from the Wiki. It illustrates the fact that stimmed Marines attack really really fast.

Vulture: +4 * 32 = 128 (concussive)
Tassdar: +3 * 43 = 129
Goliath: +4 * 42 = 168
Ghost: +5 * 42 = 210 (concussive)
Marine: +2 * 105 = 210
Archon: +5 * 47 = 245
Hydralisk: +5 * 62 = 310 (explosive, so divide by 2 for 155 if you like.)
+3 Marine: +3 * 105 = 315

Based on unit attack speeds, giving Marine +3 would be equivalent to having the Goliath or Ghost run around with (315 / 42) = +7.5 upgrade damage. Furthermore, the Marine does typeless damage and is faster than all of these ranged units except the Vulture.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Apr 18 2009, 4:20 pm by Mini Moose 2707.

One thing to point out is that the Jim Raynor Vulture attacks faster than the regular one. I think I was the one that first presented the argument that +3 Marine was rigged, and it took a while to get people to agree with me, so I guess this is my argument to take.

The only way I could feel okay with a +3 marine is if its life dropped tremendously. Something like 3400. Giving it high damage and high HP makes it into a tank and completely negates the need to use spells, as seen in MT. However, in MT its L2 and L3 spells were pretty useless, certainly not good enough to invest in. Now, the Marine has very viable spells. The L1 is weak for sure, I'll agree and have been trying to think of something to change it to. If you have a suggestion, we're more than open to it, but minecapping is out of the picture, it's too broken.

Here's a new solution for +2 rine being useful? Thoughts?:
L1: Vessel. Casting while you have a Vessel explodes it and stuns nearby heroes (both teams) for 3 seconds.
L2: 3 Mines, 5 hp, 90 armor. These can be used for taking fire from cannons as they could before, and for capturing AFTER the earlygame.

The L3 Sniper and L4 Dropship are already pretty damned good spells, so this gets rid of the annoyingly bad comsat ability and puts mines back into play. I think the marine is getting another boost in base damage next version, and it already does more damage earlygame than the MT marine did. It's not a bad character, it just can't roll over everything like it used to. People just still try to go HP+Damage with it, and it obviously doesn't work out.