Am I the only one confused by what this is supposed to mean?
Hm. Might I throw out the idea of having the heal amount instead be determined by the number of nearby Medics(unit)? I think it's an interesting idea atleast.
Then again, I'm barely above pubby level at TS. I've no idea what I'm talking about. ;o

Only problem I can see with this idea is that you'd essentially still have to do as many triggers as for the "hero's current hp level + x", and then some.

I really think that two other heroes also having transformations (three including mech) is the last thing anyone is worrying about. Also since the L1 has been made to be able to combo with its other spells, his L4 (and his other spells) already combo reavers and normal protoss ground.

One of the drawbacks of the LM being a tank and doing such huge damage is its lack of mobility. Although giving it a teleport is not a bad idea, to me it changes what the LM represents as a hero.

well i got a couple of ideas but i can definately see where they can become pretty rediculous.

Light mage could make another unit probably air and instead of copy his spells would fire under it instead. One of the reasons i really liked the original L4 was because i thought it would be cool as hell to chase a foe and have your attack constantly spawn arround you. This could somewhat work using another faster moving unit. Of course you would need to limit the time or distance.

The other one is some kind of teleportation. I didn't totally care for that island hydra survival map that was made recently but i really like some of its spells. the scourge marker for teleporation worked swell and i thought was kinda cool. maybe this could be implemented in some way and if needed you could make it have a big location in which the Light Mage could be without the teleport marker dieing.


Also i don't think its fair to critize how often something appears in a game. Each spell is fairly unique wether or not its implemented in another way inside the map. Transformations there are a couple and i like them quite a bit. Also for reavers for both L2 and L4 ice what about Hydra L1 and L4 i mean its just more hydras. Essentially they are the same but different. This is why i have come to like the current L2 of the Light Mage it spawns at four corners thus making it a bit different from L4 and i personally think more useful.

Honestly id be very happy if we left the spells as is and gave the light mage some way to give chase to an opponent with his L4. This would be awesome but thats my opinion i guess.


To: unholy - i know the new Dark mage broods for L1 would give both a chance to storm more and a chance to ensare more. one helps him level a bit better and the other can be remidied by making it cost more. In either cast i think you need to limit to 1-2 broods. I'd like to see either that way a dark mage has some kind of way of building up oh idk an army like his L4.

Also i've recently thought what about making his L4 cast arround the dark orb and require it to be cast. It could also cast on an enemy as a curse if an enemy was in range. This would both solve the problem with it not being able to raise a decent army with out a player being near and also still allow the dark mage to move freely. Just a thought.

I really like the reaver transformation idea for LM Lv4

Yeah, with a Reaver transformation the classes that normally run from the slow LM can run from a slower form of LM.

LM lv4 = CARRIER! IT'S EPICCCCCC

How's making the Medic (BW Unit) higher in hp (like, maybe, 500 hp) and the cap for it is like 1, possible 3 sinces theres 3 players, like Dark Orb. The trick is that if you're already maxed, re-casting it invinces it for a few seconds.

Actually, I think it exaggerates the whole idea of the LM quite well - a slow tank with huge damage. I do see where this idea will not work, so I'm not trying to force the idea upon people.

There's also the problem of scarab damage - we can only set one value, even if there's two different Reavers.

1. Carrier lm l4 would just make for more split upgrades. Plus it would be too counter for mutant n warrior n such.

2. Another cool idea would be to use the line area effect spell for the lm, such as creating an invince obs, and at the end of the spell, the area it flew over has goons/reavs/zlots/tassadars created on them. This would give lm a kinda good way of countering chasers, and would give him another long range spell.

Just make the LM's Lv4 create an arbiter and give psion a new Lv4. The arbiter will allow the LM to do a teleport anywhere on the map, and also with the cloaking field it would make up for LM's low hp (at least at night). There should be a time limit on the arbiter though! And i think stasis should be disable.

Make psion's Lv4 a CARRIER LOL !!

Please explain more on the downsides of a Lv4 reaver transform because I can not see any.

@CAFG:
1. It is a lot slower... Which'd numb the brain even more.
2. It'd need a lot of HP.. which doesn't fit with the Light Mage being a glass cannon
3. The Unit itself doesn't fit the 'Mage' Theme
4. It will have the same linearity as the current L2/L4 reaver blasts.

@everyone:
You guys are coming up with great suggestions.. (Including the ones in the v1 thread)... You have considered the many effects of each changes. But many of you haven't considered the intimate roles of each character... For example, the Light Mage with Teleport or an Arbiter just doesn't fit... Maybe for a Shadow Mage i guess... Plus, its weakness is Supposed to be its slowness and low HP. I don't wish to change that...

The same goes for the Archer. It's niche is supposed to be versitility. That's why he can build a camp. The only problem is that I fouled that idea up a bit, and I'm trying to repair it. I'm doing the exact same thing with Assault and Engineer, as I feel I've missed the roles in which I was planning for them. Thus, there're these big changes. Most heroes are meant to be polarizing, but some are, in effect, meant to be the middle-ground heroes. Additionally, the Phantom fills the PvP archer role nicely.

Finally, I think that people are too caught up in the PvP aspect of the game. It is not a 100% PvP game, there IS the sieging aspect and actual base killing, even though the game isn't truly equal on those terms. In that respect, I want you all to realize the potential of the spells in base killing/sieging too before you suggest to change it....

So, for the Light Mage, I will say no to the reaver transformation and any teleportation spells. L4 being 4 waves of 4 is somewhat deadlier before, but the fact that L1 is comboable at any time will make LM devastating at base killing during late-games. I'll leave LM for now until further balance .

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On another note, I am now hiring a terraineer to either completely redo or revamp a new version of the terrain ... There're bits and pieces that I don't like about the new one, and since I'm clueless about blends, I'd need someone's help. Someone who knows the basis of storm/spell-gaying and walling...

And finally, the Medic... I'll pour some coffee and get some ashtrays, as I'm going for the +5 civ hp, which is 20-24% HP above its currently level. It's hard work, I know, but things just has to happen. Hell, it's about time. (lolol)
As for its L3, i'll toy around with mana regain speed + mana drain.... And I will also test whether a medic (unit) cap would be interesting..
Any notion of using medics turning into marines is unacceptable to the medic's theme IMO. So don't expect any talk about it by me .

Those are not good reasons urine. It DOES fit it's 'crystal power' idea very well; at his ultimate form he is crystal magic incarnate, a Crystal Beast if you will... the 2khp/2kshields are permissable because of his sacrifice of speed, also using your lv1 will revert you back to Tassadar. As for making things linear, it just doesn't. You can go a hardcore Lv2/Lv4 path, a hardcore Lv1/Lv3 path, or a combination splitting your upgrades.
Currently you just hold out until you get Lv2 then completely stop using $ on ground attack, and spend everything towards reavers. Even here you only ever get your level for after you've maxed mana.

Whaat? Now it's a Crystal Mage?? @.@...
The speed downgrade isn't that good... I kinda see where you're going with this.... it may be interesting...
But I don't know if it's necessary.. and How will L3 and L2 work? Will they be able to cast during that time? If not, then it's pretty slow.... Also, it'd go against Battle Tank, which has 700 + 1000 shields, which isn't enough HP for an L4 transformation unit (Chaos mutation ultra will have 2700 HP, and Archon has 3200 shields)... So then we'd have to scrap battle tank, which I don't want to do either.

Additionally, its current L4 can be a good PvP as long as there's a stunner in your team... (you might splash ur teamate to death tho lolol)

I think the reaver transformation won't fit in LM's role of being fragile, but deadly. The reaver would be more like a tank, just like Chaos Mutation and the archon.

I would love to fix up some terrain for you, if you don't mind

You damn well know it uses crystal magic. Crystal/light magic is synonymous.
By that logic its Lv1 spell doesn't even fit into its role. The reaver is not like super charged volt or chaos mutant because it is very slow, and does not have as much hp.

i really have to say i agree with you i understand the roles that every character has to play for you. it is not as important to most players as it is to you but i agree because it is your map and i like how you try to get people to each fill their role. I think this is why the idea of having multiple players be the exact same hero would suck as well.


I frowned when i read this. Despite all this i'm truly sad you won't consider the damage spell of the medic. It is so hard to incorperate such a spell and i really liked the name and thought it fit the role well because the medic is there to heal and support but would need help if it came under attack and then could "rally" its troops to help defend it. If the notion of transforming medics is where it doesn't fit you could drop that all together.

If this doesn't work for you maybe this rally would work. how about teleporting your hero allies to your side giving them some sort of mana boost and letting them stay idk 5-10 seconds and then teleport them back to there original location which you can track with a couple of locations. This goes some what more towards the pvp aspect though somewhat. It may also be annoying if teams dont communicate properly.

THIS. Although I don't think any type of extra bonus should be given. This is already maybe to powerful for a level 2, but it is very fitting for a support character.

If you do that, make sure to add some beacon/way for players to say, "Don't Rally me." So if the tank is sieged/the civilian is on the beacon, the hero won't be transported to the Medic.