Just an idea to add more depth to the game and spell systems that could work in maybe a v2.0 (since this would completely change game play). You could add spell upgrades (maybe 3 levels?) which would basically increase time, damage, decrease cooldown etc. depending on the corresponding spell. For example: Assassin's L1 could originally have a 10 second wait with maybe a cooldown, Level 2 would be 5 seconds, level 3 would be 1 second. Its L2 could increase in stun duration and area of effect. L3 would be spell time increase, L4 damage/duration etc. This could help the balancing and game play as you will have two paths to choose from, either improving your current spells or obtaining new ones. This would make very linear heroes more strategic as well as improving the balance possibilities because the spells are more free and open.

---

Also I'm interested in the current plans for the Medic, when I first stated months ago that its L4 is by far the most powerful spell and needs to go by hp level the idea seemed to be ignored. Hopefully now, it seems like the idea to change the spell is going to be implemented. Most people think this would make the Medic useless, but even with a spell change it would still be insanely powerful, especially with both the L2 and L4 together. I do agree that the Medic would require a bonus to its own Hp from the spell, since most people use the L1 to heal anyway.

Medic's L3 is the last thing that needs to be improved, the mana spell would actually be 10x more useful now that the Medic's allies will be getting Hp upgrades for maximum benefit. Before all the civs would go into mana, making the spell useless unless a hero wanted to spam a spell over and over. If any changes should be implemented to the L3, enable the mana to go over the maximum of its current level (I don't mean the 450 max). This would allow heroes to rush their L4 (or any other spell) with only their starting 60 mana which for 9 civs worth of spells, giving an alternative route of strategy.

Another idea is to swap L2 and L3 and to change the mana given to something that would be suitable for an L2 spell. The Medic's current disable spell is definitely one of the most useful spells in the game, right behind its own L4, Assassin's L1 and Mutants L1. I don't see much of a problem if it were to be 80 mana for the same spell, unless you felt it needed to have a slightly longer duration.

The main problem with these ideas is that people are already complaining that Medic isn't too powerful. I know people that call it a useless hero in 2v2, but even then it is hugely too powerful as I have played many 2v2 where I would be Medic and the enemy had no chance because most heroes have a heavy reliance on spell casting and as long as we played it safe and their heroes didn't directly counter me and my ally, the game would already be won.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Apr 10 2009, 2:30 pm by Mini Moose 2707. Reason: Page distortion.

your spell idea is basically just like custom hero wars, also assassin with 10second wait for escape makes it utterly useless because a ranged unit with good micro can kill you from full start health before that...

In response to previous comments, don't just assume ppl have no idea what they're talking about. You have no idea about their level of experience, and this is an open forum to everyone, even if they don't play a lot.

Also, about making it so you can simply level up a spell instead of getting new spells, it won't work. With the upgrade system, you can basically already do this, and changing this would be a balancing nightmare, even more than the game already is.

You're playing the wrong version, or you're playing newbs. In 2v2 the Medic is next to useless for the simple reason that it's slow concussive damage. Perhaps I'm biased as primarily a Mech player, but I find no difficulty whatsoever in taking map control against a Medic. The only thing that you can really actually beat is a LM and a Mutant early game, which means that you should have no chance at taking more than 1 warp gate. With that being the case, assimilators (that you CAN'T kill without spending minutes) become game-ending. A smart team is also denying you experience by moving their spawns' path or just forcing you to remain near the cannons and have your kills taken. At that rate, they will have 20 upgrades by the time you get L4 and it will not have as huge of an impact.

The only scenario where a Medic is at all viable in a 2v2 in my mind is when you're partnered with a Warrior or a non-L1 Archer. Archers make surprisingly good tanks and can take out cannons faster than any other class, especially at later spell levels. This would allow you to base assault. Being partnered with a Warrior is good simply because 6000 HP is imbalanced to begin with.

I agree with Disable being very useful but feel that it should stay as an L2. I would prefer to see a new L3, though I have suggested the cap being removed, as you did. That would lead to a pretty ridiculous Volt/Mutant/Medic combo at around 110/110/70 experience, though.

As for the L4, I've said HP level + 5 civilians worth (20%-30% more) would be fair, with full HP for the medic. I'll agree with you that the medic is imbalanced due to its L4 on some versions because playing defensively lets you gain as much or more experience than playing offensively does.

faz im not going to argue if you can or can't win with a medic in 2v2 but i will argue this not all your points are as valid as you think.

Yes the medic wont be able to kill your assims as easy but his partner sure can. Especially the lurk. I can't tell you how strong the lurker is for slaughtering those things. not to mention he gets double exp from the lane hes feeding.

Also along with this is the fact that lurk can both stun you and pk you. combine this with disable and you really dont have a prayer. At night you have to be very careful. Granted there are a few counters but the medic in general counters them and the others arent annoying enough to be a bother to the lurk.


As for the cap being removed on the L3 of medic unholy has said it before it affects to many things and changing it would mean finding and changing everything it affects making it nearly impossible to do. I too would like to see a new spell in the medics aresenal. The current L3 just doesn't seem to cut it. the problem is coming up with one that both is useful and fits into Unholy's idea of the medic's role so that he feels its suitable to implement.

I personally would like to see his L1 and L4 work together for a heal because of the fact the medics are pretty useless after they spend there energy and are either fed to cannons or left somewhere to either regain energy or let you know when someones taking a certain control point. However this leads more to the fact the heros can still pump mana. It would great to combine both of these somehow. If only someone knew of a way...

I think you are completely missing the whole idea, and suggest you re-read what was written. Giving that my assassin spell levels were only EXAMPLES I don't see your point of arguing over the wait time of the spell. Yes the point of having it take 10 seconds is for people to need to upgrade it if they wish to play a safer game, or to go up the tech tree of spells and be more offensive.


Once again, read carefully. I pointed out that I would never imagine an idea so game changing to be in any 1.# version of TS. I also never said that it would REPLACE getting new spells, it just adds a more horizontal leveling to go with the already vertical leveling for spells.


I think you are confused between 1v1 and 2v2. Also what you have stated can already said about nearly half the heroes and is what we already know. Of course it's going to lose in MT, nearly all those games are ended before the second night because one team will have the better heroes for base capture. According to your statements, almost half the heroes are useless in 2v2 because of their weak map controlling capabilities.
So Warrior and L3 Archer (even when a muta archer would be better when combined with medic) are the only good heroes for base assault with full hp? Okay.

Says the Mech player.

Considering it's 'ridiculous', I don't see how people can claim that it is too weak.
So you claim that Medic is too strong on M3 but too weak in MT?

Another idea is to prevent being disabled while at temple. I have won 2v2s with a Medic, one including a Spec Ops ally. It was over by mid-game because we sat near the temple while disabling and using full heal over and over while the Spec Ops just shot at the temple.

FaZ- will tell you the Mech is overpowered as well.